Sat front row at the symphony...

Viber 6's comment, "If I were a sitting giraffe with my head way over people, then the 2nd row might be nice."  That is a great way of articulating my previous comment about achieving a "sight line" to every instrument in an orchestra. From that vantage point the listener [or microphone] can perceive all three dimensions of a large group of musicians : width, depth and height.  Sitting directly in front of such a large group of 100 or so instrumentalists does not provide the important element of depth.  I cannot dispute the choice of those who choose to do so because that choice is legitimate, just not complete.  Any seat in any hall may be to a listener's liking but most likely not to every one's taste. It reminds me of a friend who was the manager of a large motorcycle dealership.  One day, as I looked over the huge sales floor filled with hundreds of motorcycles, I asked how they expected to sell so many different styles and types.  His response was, "There's an ass out there for EVERY seat" !   I guess the same could be said for the seats in any concert hall ?   

    A music reviewer was once a guest at one of our audio listening sessions and made an interesting comment.  He suggested that it would be a good idea for orchestral recordings to list the "perspective" in which they were recorded.  i.e. -- from the perspective of the conductor, a musician within the group, a listener nearby in the hall or one in the balcony.  We all can identify recordings that emulate those "perspectives", can't we ?   Of course it was a suggestion that went nowhere because of the complexity involved but was interesting nontheless.

    It is no surprise to learn of such varied tastes in listening habits any more that the differences we see in the viewing of "art objects" or the enjoyment of culinary creations.  As an old friend used to say, "That's why they make chocolate  AND vanilla" !

fleschler and terraplane8bob,

I love the sound of my violin under my ear (fortunately I play well) which I admit isn't applicable to most listeners.  There is a vast difference between inches away and even only a few feet away.  I used to go to major auctions of violins and try out many violins.  I listened to good violinists playing a few feet away.  I was shocked when I then tried the same violin under my ear--I could hear many tonal flaws in the violin which I had no idea from listening to them just a few feet away.  So for ultimate listening pleasure, only the stage sound will do for me.  Sitting at a music stand listening to my partner, his/her precision of execution is way beyond even sitting in the 1st row as a listener.  These days I play in a small orchestra connected to a choral group.  I hear several types of instruments and choral soloists at very close range.  There is no elevated stage, so the line of sight is pure, and there is no problem as in a typical hall where the first few rows have obstructed line of sight.  The tonal purity and detail are way beyond what a typical listener in a hall can get.  What I value as exciting, crisp tonality, most listeners think it as too bright/thin.  What I consider as dull and veiled, they think is just right.  That is unfortunate, because they didn't grow up with intimate contact with real instruments.  It is a major factor in why most audio manufacturers produce mediocre veiled speakers and euphonic electronics, all designed to produce a facsimile of this laid back sound that most listeners are familiar with.

In addition to the Turnabout LP's of Rachmaninoff Symphonic Dances, the 1950's Mercury Living Presence recordings are some of the few examples of close perspectives that deliver clarity and impact.  In mono and stereo, the few main mikes were placed 10 feet over the conductor's head to deliver detail and enough but not too much spatiality which would muddy the sound.  My recordings were inspired by the Turnabout and Mercury recordings.  I used two Neumann KM184 cardioids near the conductor's head angled 90-110 degrees according to the width of the ensemble, with the diaphragms separated about 10 inches.  I got pinpoint imaging and top clarity, better than Mercury because I didn't need additional spaced omnis.  My recordings have less depth than commercial recordings.  I have found that you cannot have high clarity and lots of depth at the same time.  You have to make a choice.  Close distance is associated with less depth.  Far distance yields more depth but poor clarity.  Medium distance gives some clarity and some depth, which is what almost all recording engineers strive for.  But it is an unacceptable compromise to me.  As an aside, go on vacation to European towns where there is lots of music on the street.  Turn the corner, and allow yourself to be pleasantly surprised at new sounds like streetcar bells, random street musicians.  You don't say, "oh what depth"--but you marvel at the clarity and sudden impact.  I don't care WHERE the sound comes from, but I want to be stunned by the clarity.

In a room, 15-20 feet away is still close enough for good detail and impact.  The 1st row in a hall might be 10-15 feet away.  But the front of the balcony is at least 100 feet away, and the sound is markedly rolled off in HF.  The midrange is veiled from all the multipath time delayed arrival from hall reflections.  Terrible sound, like a speaker stuffed with drivers in every direction.  A total mess.

I’m pretty mellow when it comes to what I consider acceptable fidelity in a live context. I figure it’s all real. Just different versions of real. Even when everything is electrified or sound-reinforced.

By the same token, though, some of the best sound I’ve ever heard came from listening to and playing acoustic guitar(s) and other acoustic instruments in the tiny upscale guitar room at McCabe’s Guitar Shop in Santa Monica CA. There’s also the sound I’d hear while playing with my buddies in my or their living rooms. The sound of pianos played at the piano store or the stringed instruments being played at the violin store. The Romani violin & accordion I heard at a joint in Budapest. Or was it somewhere in the Czech Republic?

The violin and accordion at an intimate place in Budapest.  That's a better place to hear these instruments than a prestigious concert hall.  I had a similar experience at Preservation Hall in New Orleans in 2005.  P Hall was a small cave of a room with walls of rocks and 3 benches for about 20 people. The unamplified brass and piano were exciting. All for $6 for 30 min of music, including audience requests.  Now $40, still a great deal, in comparison to a concert hall where most seats are distant.  For small ensembles, cafes are the best.  They have small ensembles in large halls just as a matter of economics, not for the optimum way to hear them.

In NYC subways, good musicians perform on the platform between the noise of trains coming.  Get close, and throw them some change for 1-2 minutes of music.  You'll learn more than from going to audio shows, dealers or concert halls.

@viper6 Yes, I’ve heard live music in NYC subways throughout the 2000s’ to 2018, the last time I visited.

LA is blasting classical music to deter homeless people from gathering at metro stations The Los Angeles Metro is using classical music on its light rail system to deter homeless people from congregating and sleeping in a downtown station.https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/story/2023-04-04/loud-classical-music-macarthur-park-metro-los-angeles-decibel-meter

I still won’t use the LA subway for all the classical music they play because it is dangerous and dirty, plus it is 25 miles south of me (I reside in the San Fernando Valley part of LA City). Mexico City has a superior subway as well as the sterling Tokyo one.    And this appropriate article: https://www.dailywire.com/news/psychological-torture-chamber-l-a-subway-plays-classical-music-critics-go-bonkers?fbclid=IwAR3WEcUPGnV5BKOf4vI-gRaCcGIC7dJuNaqgwD_qFVKKbDoyDmAA8T3EYlw

Los Angeles County continues to promote public transit growth/development and continuously greater funding despite the current funding sufficient to provide free transportation for all who need it. Simultaneously, fewer riders of public transportation and attacks on private vehicle transportation through the elimination of streets to bicycles.