Devore or Harbeths to replace my ESL63s?


I'm on the last stages of a speaker quest that has been quite difficult. For the last year I've had ESL 63s in a smallish room (14'8 x 11'10). I've got them to work extremely well for small scale ensembles, particularly jazz, and they also sound great with electronic music. But I can't give them enough space to image an orchestra, and they don't really rock (at least without Gradient sub-woofers, but that's another story...)

So after a long search, it's come down to either Harbeth or Devore for replacements. These have been my favourite contemporary speakers for years, so basically I've just spent a long time finding out what I already knew.

I previously owned Compact 7ES3 and enjoyed them, but found them unrefined in the soprano regio, and slightly muddy around the port output. The Monitor 30.1 is considerably smoother in the high frequencies and I find it a beautifully balanced speaker. It is the perfect size for my room, with one failing. It lacks the half octave of bass needed to give kick drums any force. I tried the new SHL5+ in my room but they are just too big for my room, sadly.

A friend of mine owns some Devore Nines. Very few people have Devores in the UK, but he has a fantastic system with VTL 2.5/150. It used to be that when I heard his system I would find the Compact 7s unlistenable for a couple of days. That changed with the ESL63s, but the Quads have an uneven combination of great strengths and severe limits in a small room.

So it's come down to either Harbeth M30.1, Devore Super 8, or Devore 88.

I have a second hand pair of the Super 8s at home at the moment. They are beautifully organic and draw you in to their world gradually. Other speakers I have at home have more immediate and crisp micro-detail (Harbeth P3ESR for example), but the Super 8s seem to put a root into the ground and claim the room as the proper place for their music making. Relax, they say, don't worry about the details, we will sort out your musical life.

I have only two reservations; first, they are quite lean in the mid-bass, especially in comparison to my friend's Nines, and this presents some limits with rock and electronic. Second, my system is optimised for Harbeths (and then for ESLs), and Devores would probably work better with lower powered, very refined valve amps. I don't get the same clarity that I get with Harbeths in my system.

I also have an option on some second hand 88s, but I have never heard them and I would have to buy blind. That is generally against my religion.

I guess the key question is; do I go with what I know (Monitor 30.1) or look to optimise my system gradually for the newcomers (Devore Super 8 or 88).

I'd be grateful for any thoughts from anyone who has compared the M30.1 with Devores in the same room, since that is what I can't do at the moment.

(My system details: the amps are Unison Research Unico Pre/DM. The sources are a Fletcher Omega Point 5/Audio Note Arm/Nagaoka MP500, Trichord Diablo/NCPSU). Audio Synthesis DAX Discrete with AS modded CD Transport.)
andreweast
Well I will listen to the Proacs eventually, along with the Kef, the Janszen, and the Gradients if its possible to find a pair in the UK.

As for now, I just bought a pair of M30.1 ex-demo for a good price. This means I can effectively have a long home demo, then over a longer stretch of time listen to the others on my list.

The difficulty will be when the Janszen distributor gets back to me. I'd love to take up his offer of a home demo, but I don't want to waste his time if I feel married to the M30.1.

My Harbeth dealer also carries Rogue Audio and I he was singing their praises when I went in. The Stereo 100 seems very appetising. It's a shame they are a lot more expensive in the UK, as they seem a bargain in the US, but they are still not outrageous if they are as good as the reviews say. I'm keen to hear these properly soon.

My plan now is to take my time deciding whether the ESL 63s are definitely going, with the M30.1 as their direct competitor.
Congrats on getting the Harbeths , wonderful speakers. Please do report back when/if ever you manage to compare with others. Don't be surprided though if you stick with thoses M30.1s!
I too would appreciate reading a follow-up after you've lived with the 30.1's for a while. I read a blog a few months ago by a guy who has both ESL-57's and 30.1's, and as I recall he occasionally swaps them back and forth but overall prefers the 30.1. Hopefully you will feel the same way about the 30.1 and your ESL-63.
I thought I’d give an update on this thread, since I’m now using the M30.1 as my main speaker. It took some time to make a proper decision to say goodbye the the 63s. During this time I switched them with the M30.1 and both had their virtues. Then I put the M30.1 in my ‘second’ system in a larger room. I set up my old Onix BWD-1 tuner in that room and found that I was listening to BBC's classical radio station at every possible opportunity. This is when I started to fall in love with the clarity and naturalism of the M30.1.

Then I totally changed my main listening room around – it became a much better living room, but not a good space for dipoles. That decided the fate of my 63s. However the Harbeths now work very well in the new arrangement. The imaging has clicked, and I’ve got no bass issues in spite of placement quite close to corners (a pair of GK Tri-Traps helps). I’m also experimenting with a sub, and that is working better than any previous experiments.

During this time I also continued to listen to more speakers. I heard some Avalon Ideas, which did not reach the lofty heights that reviews had promised, although I think they are a decent speaker and a relatively honest one. I heard some exceptional Geithain active monitors (RK 903K), which challenged some of my prejudices about pro monitors – these were tonally natural without being harshly revealing, and to my surprise, worked very well at low volume. I heard the KEF Reference One, which were not bad, but ultimately disappointing; mid-bass heavy, overly warm, and unable to convey the higher harmonics of instruments like trumpet and soprano sax.

Finally, the speakers to cause the biggest impression have been the Proac D30R, recommended frequently on this thread. I heard these directly after the KEF and they were so much more revealing and refined. The ribbon is exceptionally well implemented, and whilst it does feel like it is throwing a spotlight at times, this never feels unnatural, and they are not bright in the negative sense. The hi-fi store let me have plenty of time to myself and I listened to a great deal of music; they excelled with orchestral recordings, and with a series of recordings of female soprano and piano I played. They were good with my favourite Coltrane pieces, great with well recorded modern pop (Stereolab in particular sounded great). This demo really felt like my own private party. The only concern I had was a rather lean mid-bass, which proved to be unflattering to a My Bloody Valentine cd I threw on as an afterthought at the end of the demo.

I played a lot of the same music later on the M30.1. The M30.1 are generous in the mid-bass where the D30R are lean, and this helped with the less than refined rock recordings. With the classical soprano recordings (these were all of French art-song – Debussy, Faure, etc) the M30.1 were also exquisite. A little less airiness and intricate vocal inflection, but possibly more dramatic purpose. However I love both speakers with this kind of music. With the Uchida recording of a Mozart piano concerto I heard more air around the top notes of the piano on the D30R. The word ‘air’ seems to be recurring already, and this is perhaps not the strongest point of the M30.1. The C7ES3 are more open, but this is achieved by a slight presence-region excess, where the M30.1 are very slightly recessed. I could go on in more detail, but I think it’s clear that I’m an admirer of both these designs, even though neither quite achieve what I set out to find. There are one or two other speakers I want to hear, such as the French Lecontoure range made by Lavardin. But for now, I live with and enjoy the Harbeths.
Keep in mind that over the long haul, the Proacs may not be as lean as you think. They maybe more accurate and realistic. We love the plummy in the mid bass. The situation you are running into is what we all do....The perfect speaker isn't out there and you are hearing compromises. What can you live with in your home and what can't you???