Turntable Isolation Journey


Nearing the end of my journey to solve footfall & feedback issues in my small-room "home office" system with very bouncy floor and flexible walls. Turntable is the only source here -- and it’s a Clearaudio Innovation Compact with no suspension or special isolation feet. This system always sounded good, but was rendered nearly unusable at higher volumes due to turntable isolation that was inadequate relative to this room’s challenges. The worst artifact was when structure-borne feedback from the speakers would cause amp clipping on bass-heavy tracks. This clipping would manifest as an extremely loud singular POP sound, especially hitting the tweeters. It only occurred during the loudest parts of track with bass-heavy elements, and was so loud it was still significantly above the level of the music -- much louder than a POP you would hear from vinyl surface defects. The POP sound was startling, and clearly very bad for tweeters (fortunately my Tannoys seem to have survived several of these incidents). For a time I thought these POPs were from static electricity discharge, but they were NOT. In my quest I tried many solutions and tweaks over a few months, and I’d like to share a rundown of what worked versus what didn’t.

What Helped (MVP products & tweaks):

  1. Townshend Seismic Isolation platform -- Single biggest difference maker, for combating both footfalls and structure-borne feedback from speakers. Amazingly-well designed and built. Leveling was a snap. Well worth the price! If you spend money on isolation, spend it here. Highly Recommended. I’m now considering more Townshend products for under my speakers and in the big loft rig.
  2. Rack Bracing -- Pushed rack right up against the wall (stud / drywall) with a 2’x2’x2" Auralex foam panel tightly wedged in between the top half of rack & wall. This SIGNIFICANTLY cleaned up rack oscillation from footfalls. I see a LOT of folks with nice turntables atop tower-style audio racks, and they could benefit greatly from this "hack". It is cheap & free; the only downside is you may need to reposition your rack. I learned about this "hack" by a couple comments buried in "turntable isolation" threads searched via google. This really CANNOT be overstated.
  3. HOCKEY PUCKS -- Placed under rack spikes in place of the stock aluminum cups or Herbie’s Giant Gliders. Just let the spikes sink right in! This actually cleaned up the very last bit of energy from footfalls; foot stomps with needle-in-groove are now DEAD QUIET. super cheap and effective! Far superior to most audiophile footer devices. Might also help in rack bracing by tightly constraining the rack between wall & floor (Herbie’s Gliders were too slippery).
  4. Rack positioning -- Get your turntable & rack away from the speakers. If you can move the rack far enough behind your speakers, that might be OK, but most rooms cannot accommodate enough depth for this. Placing the rack several feet down a sidewall worked best in this room. Choosing a structural wall also aids in rack bracing. Make sure you don’t place the rack in a room "node" where bass is amplified. Walk around while music is playing to find a nice quiet-ish spot. I kept my amps by the speakers and ran 5 meter XLR cables from the preamp / rack.

What Underperformed:

  • Critical Mass Sotto Voce rack -- the rack is gorgeous and nicely rigid, but doesn’t have nearly enough mass to combat the bouncy floor in this room. Once braced against a wall, the rigidity of this rack was allowed to shine. However, before the bracing, its performance was poor. I will say I have Critical Mass’s Maxxum rack in my (main) loft system on a more solid floor, and the immense mass & rigidity of that rack was game-changer for that system. I do like CMS products, but they are dearly expensive.
  • Critical Mass Black Platinum filter -- Top shelf of the rack. This actually has a significant positive effect, but is limited to the midrange and treble frequencies. It cannot combat footfalls or low frequency feedback. I still like and use this platform, but at more than twice the cost of a Townshend platform it belongs in this category.
  • SOTA Nova V Turntable -- I thought this table’s suspension would render it impervious to room issues, but it’s not. It helped with footfalls but some structure-borne feedback was still getting through. I suspect the suspension needs a tune-up. Quite frankly I think the OLD suspension (it started life as a 1990s Star III) was better tuned and more stable before it came back as a fully rebuilt Nova V, circa 2018. The new vacuum platter was a huge improvement but the new suspension has been disappointing. The Clearaudio deck also sounds a bit better, so now with the Townshend platform it’s an easy choice. Note that the Townshend also uses springs as its isolation mechanism, but I noticed that the Townshend’s oscillation is far better controlled and damped versus the SOTA. You can SEE and HEAR its performance advantage.
  • ISOAcoustics Gaia III speaker feet -- these seemed to have some small positive benefit, but honestly not a lot. Not worth the money.
  • Lovan Sovereign modular rack (three 10" modules high) -- these are very similar to the VTI racks I see everywhere (which I’m also familiar with). These racks lack rigidity and stability. I would not recommend placing a nice turntable on one of these racks. However, if you do, please brace it against a wall (Auralex foam works great). They’re relatively cheap and look good, so I at least understand their popularity. If you have this rack, at least try hockey pucks under its spikes :)

What Was Worthless (Don’t waste your money like I did):
I’m not going to bother expanding upon these; suffice to say they had no discernible positive effect.

  • ISOAcoustics Orea Indigo feet (under maple board & turntable).
  • Symposium Segue ISO turntable platform
  • Herbie’s Lab Giant Gliders (steel) - Placed under Sotto Voce rack spikes
  • Speaker spikes -- at least they look cool :)

128x128mulveling

Hey Folks,

Hopefully within the next two weeks I will have my TechDas III Premium S. Note the S as that denotes the newer isolation feet. Initially it will sit a bit behind but within two feet of my right speaker. It will be on an inexpensive but fairly stable rack about 2.5 to 3 feet off the ground. Floor is short pile carpet with a pad. Speaker is a ported speaker with a downward firing port and two front firing ports at the bottom front. Also a 12" sub is 4 feet away. I don’t play the system loud, with 85DB being the max peaks.

If I have a feedback or other similar issue will the Minus K help? I have a Symposium Iso something, would that be enough?

Hi Robert,

Every room & system is different so it will be a "wait and see" scenario. You have some factors in your favor:

  • You listen ~ 15dB less loud than me 😅
  • Your turntable has integrated isolation feet. My Clearaudio has direct-coupling spikes that don’t address these bigger problems.
  • Shorter rack is better. Mine is 40" tall.

Then we have the unknowns:

  • Just how rigid is that rack of yours?
  • What is the structure of your floor -- this matters more than what’s on its surface. If your floor is not rigid enough, then it won't be enough for your rack to be rigid. That's where the wall bracing comes into play. 
  • Close proximity between the table and 1 or more speakers, ESPECIALLY a port, can be problematic. Applies doubly for a subwoofer. I don’t have a subwoofer to contend with in any of my systems. Do you have a high pass filter on the main speakers, or are they run full range? If filtered, that could at least protect your mains from certain kinds of dangerous feedback issues (woofer flapping, amp clipping), though the subwoofer will have to be robust enough to deal with it.

The Symposium was of no help in my case, but that doesn’t mean it won’t be effective in your setup. Give it a try if necessary. The Townshend platform & rack bracing was ample solution in my case (the Townshend alone may be enough), so I think that should be explored as a cheaper alternative to the Minus K. But you’ve certainly got enough table to more than justify that too!

Those Air Force tables are gorgeous btw! The III Premium is what I’d go for in the line, too. I’m jealous :)

@thr1961 Congrats on the new table and tonearm. I strongly recommend starting with an S or M level HRS platform instead of going right to a Minus K or Vibraplane. It is entirely possible that the Townshend seismic platform will also work with your table. Much easier to sell an HRS or Townshend platform if it doesn't work for you. 

Bracing your stand may also help with the footfalls issue. 

 

Enjoy!

Really good to see that the Townshend solution I suggested (and supplied!) to you has worked wonders for you Mike @mulveling. I thought it would as I've seen this situation many many times. It's not for no reason that I recommend either the platform or a single podium (supplied by myself via Townshend) in all my custom Rock turntable builds. In my system I use podiums under my JBL 4367 speakers and podiums (or platforms where a podium can't be accomodated) underneath my turntables. It's generally how I like my turntables - non-suspended (for the stability of speed)  but on Townshend platforms for isolation. My Rock Reference turntable is also suspended on the completely floated Townshend Seismic Stand. This is great, because it isolates not only the turntable but the Manley Steelhead phono stage and PSU as well as my Krell KSA 100. So it isolates many products in one. Sadly it is no longer made due to the increased costs in our post-covid society! But any  make of rack can also now be supported on seismic pods, bars and corners, as we do for all our Townshend demo's in the UK. So pleased you're having success. Let me know if I can be of any further help for both this, or the main system, but for now, enjoy!  All the best.

Matt (The RockDoc)

 

And don't forget fellas, if you  already have a turntable shelf you really like (the carbon fiber one from BDR, for instance), you may use four of the individual Seismic Pods under that shelf. Much cheaper than the Seismic Platform.  And if your loudspeakers are already fitted with an outrigger-style base, the Pods may be used in place of the spikes. Again, considerably cheaper than the Seismic Podium.

This thread is very good reading as I'm building a rack that'll house a TT. My iso Gias are not to be used under the table from what others say! I have two sets of Townshend seismic pods the C ones. Don't they have a colored dot on them, not using them now. I didn't like them as they're to springy, maybe I have the wrong ones?