So I bought the Willsenton R-800i

Careful with the tube rolling!! I started with the Willsenton 300i 845, great amp for the money, and now have three SE tube amps and a hybrid tube pre w/ class AB power output AND have amassed a collection of over 300 tubes for the four amps!   i run Klipsch Forte IIIs and Focal 926s with the Willsenton and a Klipsch 12in 300 watt sub wired off the speaker terminals.  The Forte’s love the Willsenton, but only at 9 o’clock max on volume pot, I can get the Focals to 10 o’clock.  Clearly there is serious umph and headroom with the Willsenton’s 23 wpc. I believe the 805 is north of 40 wpc.

Replaced the 300b with new production Gold Lions 300bX, much smoother, more detail and greater linearity up and down the frequency spectrum.  Replaced the 845s with Shuguang 845B, same result, more detail, warmth and greater soundstage. Great upgrades for the money, although I wouldn’t call the Gold Lions cheap at $450/pair.  The Shuguangs were about $250 plus shipping.  Likely won’t be purchasing new or old WEs or vintage RCAs, just way too $$.  

BTW china-hifi told me stock tubes are LinLia hifi series. Not bad, but not great.  The stock 6sn7s are actually 6H8C Novisbirisk, and the 12ax7 is a JJ from the the old Check Tesla factory in Slovenia.  

Now, on to the pre-stage; 12AX7 i agree the Tele’s are great tubes, have both ribbed and smooth plate, smooth plate definitely superior, smoother, more detail and greater soundstage.  IMO however the Amperex Holland Bugle Boy beats the Teles with more air, detail and soundstage hight, not cheap but you should try and find one of these.  Also have Blackburn Mullards, RFTs, Russian and Chinese Gold Lions, GE, RCA, anf Raytheon black plate.  Bugles #1, Tele #2, and Mullard #3.

You should also look at trying a12AT7, lower gain but like I’ve experienced, the Willsenton has tons of headroom.  Have Teles, Mullards, Bugle Boys, Sylvania, Brimar, Westinghouse and a real sleeper, RCA black plate, think I paid $15 for it. Warm, smooth, a little rolled off on the top but a beautiful sounding tube.

On to the 6SN7, have Sylvania's, Tung Sols, Russian Fotons (cheap great all rounders), Raytheons, GEs, RCAs. CBS Hytron’s, GTs, GTAs, and GTBs.  By far the best are the Sylvania GTs from early 50s, two hole or three. Bass, mids, treble extension and clarity.  Next would be the Tung Sol GTAWs, followed by Sylvania and Tung Sol GTB FAA issues. The Tung Sols are a little more gritty, the Sylvania’s a touch warmer  Sleepers are the Hytron GTs from 1954, a superb linear tube with great tonality. 
 

Rectifierers do make a difference due to differences in voltage drop and how the amp (and rest of tubes) react to various DC voltages.  I’m fond of the Svetlana 5U4C black plate (over the gray plate), followed by the RCA smooth black plate.  Also try a 5AR4, Mullard ($$) or another great option is the new issue Gold Lion.  You’ll find the speed of mids and bass tighter with the 5AR4, less rolled off high end.  

Obviously personal preference, type of music, your room, and heck, even your mood can dictate what sounds best on any given day.  Early mornings with my Inspire KT88 running St Pete Svets and Anouar Brahem through the Klipsch (no sub) vs an evening with a glass of wine (left bank all the way), Klipsch and Joss Stone or CSNY vs a stiff bourbon, Jason Aldean and the Focals blaring Night Train are all different, but equally wonderful! 

Music can stir the soul, happy listening! 

Cheers, 

Thanks for sharing your experience! As you say, music can stir the soul and I feel the amp helps to do it. Now that you mentioned it, I have to listen to Anouar Brahem again. The three ECM records I own are all great, the standout for me being „The Astounding Eyes of Rita“ – what a gem and great evening listening. I find myself drawn more and more to this kind of music, which conveys a sense of relaxedness, soulfulness, experience. The style is not that important, it can be this, it can be rock music (I adore Yo La Tengo), ambient, classical or other. I guess it´s a good sign this speaks to me and I don´t need cathartic relief as often as I used to. But a well recorded wall of sound is also no problem for the R800i.

This tube rolling sure is a black hole thing. I´m far from having that many tubes and I´m very happy with the tubes I own but I keep my eyes and ears open to what people say sounds nice and every now and then get something new (or new old).

For now I´m really happy with the Teles but some local audioguy came across a box of unused RFT ECC83s, I´m curious how they perform. And there´s still Brimar, Valvo and Mullard to check out. But I´m not in a hurry with that.

I did try the Mullard 12AX7 (CV4024) but I didn´t find it to be very engaging so I´m not following that route for now. (I always have to say „for now“ when it comes to these things, I know myself...)

In the 6SN7 slot I´ve lately been using Sylvania VT-231s and wow, they are really good. They are military GTs (I think) and are supposed to sound a lot like the regular GTs or the well-regarded GTAs. So, yes, I agree, they´re really, really good. Also there´s a variety of Fotons with a squareish getter that extends in a right angle that is supposed to be a tad better than the regular ones. I own these and tried them, they sound nice, but I have to find the time to do another direct comparison. With the prices for NOS these days the Fotons are a high quality bargain and the right angle-getter ones also don´t cost a fortune (I paid about 30€ for a pair).

The Svetlana 5U4Cs with black paltes have become a kind of sensation and I´m also very happy with the ones I own. They just don´t seem to last very long, I read about quite a few giving up after just a few hundred hours. One question: Does yours light up a bit when you start up the amp? I read contradictory things about that: Some say it´s a sign they are on their way out and you should replace it soon while others say it´s part of the show. My current one does does show something like a tiny blue flame for a brief moment, but it´s done this almost from the beginning and it´s running fine. Maybe I´m playing with fire, who knows.

All the best!

Hi,

I have two of VEB Rohrenwerk Neuhaus GDR NOS ECC83s, very similar to the RFTs, same collective ownership as RFT back in the day of communist East Germany. They are noisy in my Willsenton, with higher hum coming from the Forte's which are 99dB.  I believe the Cornwall's are 102 dB so I'd think you'd get even higher noise with RFTs.  They sound a lot like the stock JJ 12AX7, a bit "hard," not as warm or engaging as some of the other NOS 9 pins, e.g., Tele, Amperex, Mullard, RCA, etc.  I also have a set of VEB and RFT EL34s for another small SET amp, and they sound excellent, as good as Tesla's but not as sweet as St. Pete Svetlana EL34s. 

Don't know if you've experienced the hum issue with your Willsenton.  It's not a ground loop, I've troubleshot that, not the issue.  The hum is volume independent (adjusting up or down doesn't impact hum level).  I've played with the hum adjuster, put a DC filter on the power cord (to avoid DC looping back to the power transformer), experimented with lifting the ground, etc, etc and still have a bit of hum at idle regardless of the tube compliment.  It's basically the mechanical transformer noise making its way to the speakers.  China-hifi said it is normal with the amp.  Some 12AX7s are louder than others, and the 12AT7s are quieter overall.

My Dennis Had Inspire KT88 Firebottle has zero hum coming from the Klipsch, so I know it's possible to build a dead quite amp (requires much higher quality transformers, i.e., more expensive).  The Inspire is a different build than the Willsenton (completely by hand, no PCB board, custom wound transformers and highest quality caps and resistors) and only has 10 wpc.  I've read numerous places that the bigger, stronger the amp, the more mechanical noise it will generate. 

Anyway, I found the VEBs humming too much for my taste.  The 12AT7's hum less across the board due to lower gain, 60 mu vs 100 with 12AX7;'s.  That being said, the Telefunken smooth plate AX7 is very quite, as is the Amperex BB, the Mullard and the Russian Gold Lion 12AX7 (which BTW can act as a great reference tube, I've found the entire Gold Lion series to be very clear, clean and crisp, and linear with excellent bass that is tight.  I have a set of KT88s, KT77s for the Inspire, and 300b's and the 12AX7 for the Willsenton).

The RFTs are cheaper, but I would encourage you to save up and go for the Amperex Bugle Boy 12AX7 or 12AT7 (make sure you get Holland build, not France or GB), you'll get low noise (hum), very clear, clean and crisp highs with extended soundstage (more height), AND good bass with warm mids.  The BB is just a bit "brighter" up top than the Tele smooth plate, meaning more detail, cleaner treble extension.  Subtle but distinctive.  

And yes my Svet 5U4C  BP "pops" a little purple blue color/light on top when fired up, looks really cool and I've read it is normal, nothing to worry about, doesn't mean tube is on it's way out or anything.  I also have the gray plate version of the Svet, and it doesn't "pop" on turn on.  I also have a set of Svet 6550s for the Inspire that glow blue when warmed up for 30 mins or so...very cool look.  Also normal and doesn't mean anything.  None of the Gold Lions or any other tube for that matter glow blue in the Willsenton, but boy do the 845s get hot!  I added a slim, quite fan that sits nicely on top of the transformer and tube cage to keep my AC bill down!

Regards

I do experience the hum issue as well and I don´t know if it´s been there from the beginning or not, at least I noticed only after quite a while. After checking all possible component, cables, tubes etc. I also blame it on the tranformer. When I listen closely that´s also the place where it seems to come from. Unfortunately it´s louder with the Elrog 300Bs I´ve been using. Great tubes, but the hum is, well, it´s there. And it´s bothering me to the point where I found it difficult to listen to music. Well, having said that it´s still in the range where my girlfriend just shrugs, it´s basically not noticeable when music place (except for very quiet parts). There was some other issue with them and I´m waiting for a replacement pair, maybe that will change something.
I guess with that hum issue we´re entering real high end territory. If all parts are high qualtiy it just costs more. Considering value for money the R800i is hard to beat.

The RFTs would be really cheap, like under 10€ a piece, so I´d be ok with them not being a revelation.

Thanks for the info on the blue light in the 5U4C, that´s very helpful!

I’m sorry to hear folks have significant audible hum.  That’s frustrating. 
 

I have almost zero hum. I have to put my ear right above the transformer and it’s barely audible still. I think the transformer is potted. 
 

Have you sent a video of the hum to China Hifi?  I’d do that. They may be able to help.  I’d ask them if the transformer is potted too. 
 

I’ll look inside at the transformer when I open the unit up.