Did Amir Change Your Mind About Anything?


It’s easy to make snide remarks like “yes- I do the opposite of what he says.”  And in some respects I agree, but if you do that, this is just going to be taken down. So I’m asking a serious question. Has ASR actually changed your opinion on anything?  For me, I would say 2 things. I am a conservatory-trained musician and I do trust my ears. But ASR has reminded me to double check my opinions on a piece of gear to make sure I’m not imagining improvements. Not to get into double blind testing, but just to keep in mind that the brain can be fooled and make doubly sure that I’m hearing what I think I’m hearing. The second is power conditioning. I went from an expensive box back to my wiremold and I really don’t think I can hear a difference. I think that now that I understand the engineering behind AC use in an audio component, I am not convinced that power conditioning affects the component output. I think. 
So please resist the urge to pile on. I think this could be a worthwhile discussion if that’s possible anymore. I hope it is. 

chayro

"In fact measurements are just another way to be fooled.  One might argue that knowing a piece measures well causes more bias than if we knew nothing about the measurements.  So in fact the objectivists may be more subjective and biased and deluded than those that do not know a thing about the measurements.  They think, oh, well, that DAC measured great on ASR so it must sound good.  So it sounds good to them.  "

First, we don't evaluate measurements in a vacuum.  If I measure noise at -80 dB, I can demonstrate conclusively that it could be audible based on playback level. Conversely, if the noise level is at -120 dB, I can tell you that it is 5 dB better than best case threshold of hearing so absolutely inaudible.  See how we combine measurements with psychoacoustics science which completely relies on listening tests?  

As a more complex example, look at how much noise is bleeding into this power cable I measured:

That is the red/blue graph.  Now pay attention to that green curve.  That is threshold of hearing.  Clearly the noise is below that for both samples.  Ergo, they won't make an audible difference.  Here measurements powerfully tell you what is going on.

In other cases, yes, if I showed distortion at -80 dB vs -130 dB, we can't quickly assess if the former truly has audible distortion to everyone's ears.  As it happens, audiophiles are terrible at detecting non-linear distortions.  So to them the -80 dB product could be just as transparent as the -130 dB one.  What we can do is again, prove that the -130 dB distortion product is completely transparent to the source.

But here is the trick, and it is a good one, you can get superbly transparent for a lot less money than products with much less chance of transparency!  Amazing progress has been made by companies that are dedicated to proper engineering and science to eradicate any audible impairments.  A $100 DAC indeed can run circles around a $10,000 one, no ifs and buts about.

Again, the distortion and noise in the $10,000 DAC may not be audible to you.  Which is fine.  Just don't say that because it is expensive it must be better.  Or that you did this and that listening test that proved the same.  Both are completely faulty assumptions.

Members who frequent ASR don't just read a number or graph.  After a short while, they start to learn the meaning behind them and more than capable to not run with "oh, it has lower distortion so it must sound better." That is a label you are incorrectly putting on us and doesn't reflect reality. 

Hang around on ASR long enough and you will be exposed to incredible amount of discussion around audio science in all aspects.  I guarantee you that you will know more about this hobby than spending years arguing with people elsewhere.

So please don't keep making stuff up about who we are and what we do.  Learn who we are and what we do and then tell us it is wrong.

Until this is learned and really internalized, certain audiophiles will continue to make the wrong choices in their selection of audio gear.

 

You’re a fast talker ... so I thought I’d insert a possible typo.

Okay @amir_asr enlighten us.

But here is the trick, and it is a good one, you can get superbly transparent for a lot less money than products with much less chance of transparency!  Amazing progress has been made by companies that are dedicated to proper engineering and science to eradicate any audible impairments.  A $100 DAC indeed can run circles around a $10,000 one, no ifs and buts about.

Posts here from Amir have reached double digits.  One included a picture of numerous items waiting to be measured.  Quite the backlog of pro bono work needing attention while posts to this forum pile up?

Amir is like the Jehovah Witness that appears at your door uninvited.  Polite no thank you does not deter the conversion sermon.  Eventually, the door has to be closed only resulting in a louder voice continuing the sermon.  

By now everybody should have heard enough.  Join ASR and discuss measurements to your hearts content, or follow another path.

@texbychoice that's a big part of the problem. If I were to raise some of these issues with measurements or why he hates Erins audio, which to me is fair game if he gets to call his titles clickbait, I would be booted from ASR very quickly.

I do agree this conversation is probably just going nowhere. It's like two sides of the political aisle.