Did Amir Change Your Mind About Anything?

@amir_asr gray is everywhere. Space in your head. In outer space. There is color too. Black and white thinking causes racism. It causes wars and intolerance. Which is what you’re propagating. I believe in old audio as I do in new. I heard atc recently. Sounded neutral. It sounded boring compared to the harbeths next to it. Why would I buy something that doesn’t interest me or excite me to look at and play every day. That topping dac is nice in its measurements but the benchmark looks better and is made in the USA so for those reasons I’ll take that over the topping. Why can’t people take measurements into account and spice them up with other variables? The only good black and white I know is in an Oreo cookie. 

@amir_asr -

      Had you, at any point, actually addressed me; I would have responded to your inane and vapid retorts to my post sooner.

       Believing this thread a waste of time: I hadn't bothered to peruse the stupidity any further, until tonight.

                          Then I noticed that you'd quoted me (pg 15).

                            I'll copy/paste my post, to save keystrokes.

"No one can tell you whether/how your system, room and/or ears will respond to some new addition.   There are simply too many variables.      LIKEWISE: no one can possibly know whether a new addition (ie: some kind of disc, crystal, fuse, interconnect, speaker cable, etc)  will make a difference, in their system and room, with their media and to their ears, without trying them for themselves.         Some companies offer a 30 Day Satisfaction Guarantee, so- those that are actually interested, have absolutely nothing to lose, by trying (experimenting with) such.           Anyone that knows anything about the sciences, realizes that something like 96% of what makes up this universe, remains a mystery.             For centuries; humanity’s seen, heard, felt and otherwise witnessed phenomena, that none of the best minds could explain, UNTIL they developed a science or measurement, that could explain it.           The Naysayer Church wants you to trust their antiquated science (1800’s electrical theory) and faith-based, religious doctrine, BLINDLY ("Trust ME!").       Theories have never proven or disproven anything.  It’s INVARIABLY testing and experimentation that proves or disproves theories/hypotheses.        IF you’re interested in the possibility of improving your system’s presentation, have a shred of confidence in your capacity for perceiving reality and trust your own senses: actually TRY whatever whets your aural appetite, FOR YOURSELF.                            The Naysayer Church HATES it, when THAT happens! "            That you assume so much, regarding the possible listening experience, aural acuity, professionalism, education, cognition and a host of other variables, regarding the members of this forum, the vast amount of your bloviating and condescension; I can only infer that the Dunning-Kruger Effect has deep roots in your skull.          Red and blue socks?    Science and Engineering?    Dark Matter and my car?                                             SPARE ME!          What I believe regarding the behavior of electromagnetic fields, how dielectrics, conductors and Poynting Vectors (which are affected by the frequencies in our  music/signals) might affect our presentation is based on the Physics (QED and Particle-Wave Theory), studied in college.               Unlike you and the rest of the planet's Naysayer Church members (Denyin'tologists), some: so proudly touting their extensive knowledge of antiquated (1800's) Electrical Theory, that feel it necessary, to SAVE US from our broken, worthless and deceitful mental faculties.           That you have a website makes you somewhat of a Pope of Deyin'tology, I suppose, able to feverishly spread your Gospel, to more lost sheeple.                    One word to describe my view of you and your ilk:                                     floccinaucinihilipilification

     "Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction."  (Pierre Pachet, Professor of Physiology at Toulouse , 1872) 

     "The abdomen, the chest, and the brain will forever be shut from the intrusion of the wise and humane surgeon,"  (Sir John Eric Ericksen, British surgeon, appointed Surgeon-Extraordinary to Queen Victoria 1873)

      "The super computer is technologically impossible.  It would take all of the water that flows over Niagara Falls to cool the heat generated by the number of vacuum tubes required." (Professor of Electrical Engineering, New York University)                        

      "There is no likelihood man can ever tap the power of the atom."  (Robert Millikan, Nobel Prize in Physics, 1923)

      "Man will never reach the moon regardless of all future scientific advances." (Dr. Lee DeForest, Father of Radio & Grandfather of Television)

      "Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible!" (Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895) 

      "The bomb will never go off.  I speak as an expert in explosives."  (Admiral William Leahy, re: US Atomic Bomb Project) 

     When the steam locomotive came on the scene; the best (scientific) minds proclaimed, "The human body cannot survive speeds in excess of 35MPH."

      Until recently (21st Century); and the advent of the relatively new science of Fluid Dynamics, the best (scientific) minds involved in Aerodynamics, could not fathom how a bumblebee stays aloft. 

     Often; Science has to catch up with the facts/phenomena of Nature and/or, "reality" (our universe). 

     I haven't been in school since the 60's, but- at Case Institute of Technology; the Physics Prof always emphasized what we were studying was, "Electrical THEORY."         He strongly made a point of the fact that no one had yet actually observed electrons (how they behave on the quantum level) and that only some things can really be called, "LAWS." (ie: Ohm, Kirchoff, Faraday)   

                     PERHAPS: that's changed in recent years and I missed it?

@amir_asr 

I see that your most recent reply to me has been deleted, amir, and I can only assume you have done so, since no one else would have had anything to gain doing so.

For context to my reply to that, I have attached the URL screen captures of the said reply, for anyone wanting to follow the discussion -

1.your original reply - https://ucarecdn.audiogon.com/9dbb501c-54db-47cf-bfdb-b86ffe12f3c3/-/autorotate/yes/-/quality/smart/-/format/auto/

2.the deleted reply - https://ucarecdn.audiogon.com/04156320-6586-4f9b-8409-c32724fa3bd8/-/autorotate/yes/-/quality/smart/-/format/auto/

3.your deleted reply in full - https://ucarecdn.audiogon.com/91823abe-cf31-4f14-87a1-8b40ba847748/-/autorotate/yes/-/quality/smart/-/format/auto/

 

and my response to it - 

 

Thanks amir, as always, for your quick reply. Reading through it, however, I felt deep disappointment, as I had expected logical and relevant insight.

Instead, I have begun to see a pattern with all your replies not just to me, but with most participants in this thread. In every reply you have sent me, you have never answered directly. In your first reply, you referred to an unrelated topic on ‘learning how to listen’ when my question was about inherent listening ability. I let that go, and brought your attention to your misread of my question, to have you engage wordplay with my having you at ‘disadvantage’, but then prevaricate by saying you had given a clear answer and in doing so, avoid acknowledgement of your oversight. You then qualify your disapproval of the listening test I asked about, by referring to an anecdote about learning once again, this time by way of paltering over a CD on Japanese language instruction.

I then reply as thoroughly as I can, in response to a question you ask about the test in question, only to then receive a rude reply, denying the logical and conflating my reply with manhood comparisons, once again avoiding the issue that the blind listening tests you advocate are not proper tests, as they have two variables in them, the listener and equipment comparisons, lacking proper controls.

Amir, the way you communicate is through prevarication, conflation and paltering, to avoid direct answer or confrontation with the actual issues under discussion. You present completely unrelated truths to the discussion at hand as argument time and again, in more technical discussion or prosaic response, in order to drag any one attempting to engage reasonable discussion into an endless rabbit warren of linguistic subterfuge, wearing down the other participant with ever increasing divergence until the other quits, in frustration or plain exhaustion.

This lack of sincerity on your part has made me believe your words in discussion can no longer be trusted.

In your most recent reply to me, you countered the simple test for listening ability I presented (on music file resolution) through paltering once again, presenting another listening test you have taken (on injected distortion into selected music files), in complete disregard of the entirely different nature and objectives of each test - Tests on injected distortion examine hearing ability, while tests on file resolution examine listening skill - Hearing ability cannot be changed much; while listening skill, innately poor or good, can be developed. Hearing need not have anything to do with the nuanced ebb and flow of the time domain. Listening is entirely about the most subtle cues of timing and rhythm.

Aside from that, even your statistical calculations lie, as you only calculated for the probability of five correct tracks in a row - getting all six tracks correct moves the decimal one more spot left, leaving a statistical probability of 1.6 percent - well below your passing standard of 13 percent - yet another attempt to pass off a lie as truth.

You conflate and palter entirely unrelated ideas and truths to confuse, convolute and twist any discussion underway to make it appear - at least, to less observant readers - that you have the upper hand. It should be quite clear to anyone reading your replies to me that while you may have above average abilities in hearing, your listening abilities are below average - you gave quite good clue you could not even tell the different resolutions of music files apart. You opine the test was designed to have participants say there is no difference between the tested files, because you could tell no differences yourself when you tried listening to them – it is a truth only you know in your heart, but do not yet know how to confront, because it destroys the entire narrative you have built around measurements.

Amir, the missing piece of your narrative is the other half of the equation called electromagnetism, since all that science has been able to measure is the electrical side - the constantly changing shape and profound nuance of the magnetic field carrying the complexity of a musical signal defies all attempts at measurement. You will say that the electrical side carries all that information, to which I would say that’s why what you claim to do cannot be called science – you ignore all possible relationships, in focussing on just one. You might also say that everything about magnetism can be measured, which is so patently untrue, only the most ignorant would believe that. The relationships that govern electromagnetism are still mysterious to scientists, never mind the effect those relationships have on sound reproduction.

The other missing piece to your narrative, Amir, is self-critique, the humility required to take the next step to the unknown - to not always need to feel to be in command, and let that obsessive compulsion go, if even for a moment, for actual fresh discovery to be found - the stuff true science is made of. You will say all discoveries have already been made in the field of electromagnetism and resultant sound quality, to which even a half-wit will tell you, is not only patently untrue, but frighteningly anti-scientific.

The Sufi have a proverb - ‘If you want to destroy a man, praise him” - it is something I have tried to live by my entire life, not by way of destroying others, but in avoiding the destruction of myself. There is so much of this proverb I see you have allowed to be sown within yourself.

I have found my greatest teachers to have been those who welcome the smallest challenge in the hope of discovering the missing pieces they do not yet know, rather than rejecting all challenge in the possible face of losing all they think they do. True science is the discovery of everything we do not yet understand, not the constant regurgitation of everything that is already established. Electrical measurements in isolation are part of that regurgitation, of the known t­hat merely support ignorance and indoctrination, not true teaching. Indoctrination creates followers and what others cruelly call minions, while teaching inspires new leaders who will exceed what has been taught.

Part of regaining your humility, Amir, as well the ability to self-critique, is to be less cognitively dissonant and more self-aware in understanding that you engage the practice of paltering, prevarication and conflation that characterise politicians and their ilk - it attracts many, who admire those who appear to be in complete command of themselves, but who in fact live very small lives. It also, unfortunately, gives those with unpracticed ears and mind the easy way out, in not bothering to train their listening minds to develop profoundly.

Your method should scare any audiophile beyond belief, because the fear of losing their skills for listening and independent thinking should shake them into training their listening skills well, because any lazy listener can merely adopt your numbers to ease themselves the effort of developing their listening abilities, claiming, as you do, that the difference cannot be heard.

I do not expect my words will make any difference to you, since narcissists commonly suffer cognitive dissonance to such degree, their entire world collapses with the loss of the narratives they have built up around themselves. But even so, I have hope that if you are able to regain the humility to self-critique, you will see that the label of ‘teacher’ that you wear so proudly, is the very one destroying your very ability to think critically, as a student of deeper learning. You could make tremendous contribution to true knowledge.

Nonetheless, I wish you well, and the strength to question your presumptions, assumptions, and ingrained dominant paradigms.

In friendship - kevin.