Vandersteen 5a Carbons

Guys, I just read the last few posts. Never owned Vandies, but a couple of years ago, I spent some time socializing with Treos at a dealer. The dealer had taken in trade an ARC VS-115 amp, which happened to have been the same model amp I was using at the time. I was underwhelmed.

Having said all that, I'm not so sure now that the fault was the Vandies, the amp, the cabling or any other system component. Instead, the problem may have been the room.

I'm not going to repeat the schpiel (sp??) I already posted in the DEQX thread that is still active. But suffice to say, I bought the DEQX PreMATE which corrected a goodly amount of my speakers' time alignment deficiencies. Even still, I can't say in good faith that my Paradigm Sig. 8s (v3) are as time coherent as the Vandies. But my speakers are more time coherent as corrected do sound better.

All that said perhaps the most important correction effected by the DEQX was room correction. If I didn't see the room effects with my own eyes via mic and computer display and hear the corrections with my own ears ... in my sound room, using my gear ... I wouldn't have believed such improvements were possible.

So ... back to the Vandy posts above. Even if I stipulate that Vandies are the most time coherent and best sounding speakers ever made and are driven by the best electronics, I submit that if the room sucks, the sound will suck.

Trust me on this. In fact, call Mr. Vandy himself, John Rutan of Audio Connection, and ask him what one could expect by way of performance if the room sucks. Johnny R is a pretty straight shooter. I surmise he would say get the room in order or be prepared to trash a lot of dough.

Btw, in my case, the room distortions were not limited to 500 Hz and below. Point being, I am dubious that the low end equalizer correction features in the better Vandies would be able to address all of my room issues.

Regards,

Bruce

Thanks Bruce. I have this talk with Johnny on occasions too. Everyone knows that the room is as important as anything else. There are a lot of inexpensive corrections you can make to get a nice starting point.

I have had the Paradigm that you reference in my home before I bought the Treo's and it wasn't even close to my ear or my wife's. She has no clue what is what but she said she was happy I got the Treo's as they were much better than the 'other ones'. I have an old pair of Paradigm's with cube sub in my bedroom, so I like the company overall.
Bruce, the correction is bass only, but it allows you to be much more liberal in placement of the speakers in the room making it more friendly if you don't have a dedicated room like most folks.

Ctsooner ... the Paradigm S8s (v3) are very good speakers.

The Vandy dealer compared the Treos to the Paradigm Tributes. The Tributes ate the Vandy's lunch. But again, I'll be generous and open minded. I suspect the room was the culprit.

Equipment synergy and room effects are sooooo important. It's difficult to make generalizations.

In my case, I think the DEQX tamed my Sig 8s and crummy room. Perfect ... NO. Better ... YES.

Bruce, that's why they make all these models....we all hear differently. I know the whole Paradigm line very very well. That's one reason I own a pair, lol. For me, the Treo's ate the S8's (v3) lunch. I have heard the Tributes too and liked them very much, but for me they aren't the Treo's or Quatro's. I will say that they were in my top three speakers to purchase when I was ready to make a purchase.

I have heard a lot of room correction, including the DEQX. I have found that one to be one of, if not the best, however I like the Lyndorf one also. They rebadge it in the states under the Mac label. I have a similar program in Amarra that I'm going to fiddle with soon I think.

In the end, it's still all about starting with a good room and then purchasing a system and not components. I was open to anything on the market and I was an audio free agent (I had no dealer) so I shopped about 45 different dealers in my travels to figure out what I liked best.

When I looked as my favorite lines of speakers most were phase and time correct. The speakers I thought I was going to like the best, I didn't (I have owned a few lines since 69, and thought that I would start with those brands, however overtime I realized that I like other lines the stores carried better.

I found most speakers goosed a db or 2 in the top end and I can't sit and listen to them for hours. To me that's not 'open' or 'detailed', it's just annoying. Again, that's me. That's one reason I liked the S8's too. I also listened for the speakers that show the differences of a cable when you switch them out. Hopefully you didn't take my comments as badmouthing the Paradigms.

Bruce, the other thing that just came to mind is how a speaker is auditioned in a show room. I take control of the remote as many dealers will personally like one speaker over another. It's often about markups and money. It should be to an extent, however I have had dealers goose the volume a spec during a song etc.. to 'show how dynamic they sound'....we know that's not right, but I've been in very high end boutiques and caught them doing it.

That's why listening and educating yourself is so important. You can tell by many folks posts if they do that, however we all know that too many just buy on what some of us say and they don't use their own ears or don't trust their ears. I say, just go listen and if you don't hear a difference in a product, then it's not for you. Just because it sounds different, doesn't mean it sounds right.

Ctsooner, I will have to find my way to Johnny R's shop. He is an ARC dealer and knows more Vandies than Richard (sic). As I said above, I suspect that I didn't hear the Treos at their best.

Other speakers on my radar screen are Magico S-5s. They are phase coherent but not time coherent. That's where the DEQX does its thing.

And even with the best Vandies, they may be perfectly time coherent, but they will sound like crap in a crummy room.

Will need to talk to Johnny R.

Just had retinal surgery. This exercise will have to wait for a bit. Also, my next tweak may be upgrading my ARC Ref 150 to the SE. It's a process.