WHY CABLES MATTER!
I have seen the argument over and over again on why cables matter and the that wire is just wire and how scientifically it’s impossible for them to make a difference. The thing that surprises me the most is that different materials are used. Different shielding is used. Different connectors are used. Different braiding methods of the cables are used. Materials are sourced from different manufacturers and put through different creative processes but I always get some guy who comes on and says. WIRE IS WIRE AND YOU ARE NOT HEARING WHAT YOU ARE HEARING? To me it’s pure arrogance to think you know more than everybody else to the point where you tell me what we are hearing through my ears and we are not smart enough to know when are minds are playing trick on us. But using all these different materials, process and shielding and creative processes don’t make a difference. I spent the last 15 years trying all the cables I could try. Thoughts anyone?
I’ve been saying "no cable company knows how to make audio and power cables properly except Wavetouch audio." The truth is in the performance of audio system. Wavetouch audio sounds closest to the original music in the world. Alex/Wavetouch |
Your comments about stock Belden cables being hard to beat is interesting given all the theories, marketing hype, and exorbitant pricing for "audiophile" cables that either by measurement or listening tests have not been uniformly proven to provide significant (if even audible) sonic improvements. Belden cables (among other professional type cables) are mostly used to process the music we listen to and the equipment we use for playback includes many feet of mostly basic copper wire that is used in transformers, speaker voice coils, and other components. Belden makes some compelling stock cables and I believe it would be interesting to listen to their bulk/stock cables compared to much more costly "audiophile" cables, assuming the Belden cables were similarly terminated. For interconnects, the Belden 1800F you mentioned uses foamed Polyethylene insulation and braided copper shielding, and should perform well as an interconnect, either RCA or XLR. If this had been specifically designed for the audiophile market, it seems they might have used their High Conductivity Oxygen-Free Bare Copper (OFHC) wire instead of their Bare Copper (BC) wire, which I believe is tough pitch electrolytic copper (99.9+ percent pure copper at 100% IACS). For speaker cables, instead of the 5000 series which uses PVC insulation, I would suggest the line of Belden speaker cables recommended by Galen Gareis for those who want a less expensive option to his Iconoclast cables. Those options all use OFHC copper and are insulated with foamed Polyethylene. The line includes the two conductor 1313A (10awg) and 1311A (12 awg), and the four conductor 1312A (12 awg) and 1310A (14 awg) cables, either of which can be constructed in a star-quad geometry resulting in aggregate gauges of 9 and 11 awg, respectively. I find it interesting that Belden’s upscale Iconoclast line does not include power cables and instead they recommend cables from the Belden Audio/Video (BAV) line including Belden’s 19105, 19106 and 19107 stock cable (high-flex 10, 12 and 14 AWG BC conductors) with upgraded connectors. I am too far down the road with cables to go back and buy/try the Belden cables discussed above but if I were starting over, knowing what I know now and having experienced what I have related to cables, I would definitely use the cables listed above and save my money for component and speaker upgrades where I have always heard much more significant differences and improvements than with cables. |
The notion that everyone is under the influence of expectation bias and placebo effect and that subjective listening reports are essentially the result of delusion, is simply absurd. It’s just like a certain politician who instructed his followers to ignore what they read and saw and instead listen only to him. Smart people don’t dismiss observations and empirical evidence just because someone else tells them to. Get this: Placebo effect and wishful thinking won’t cure cancer. Typically, biases are revealed over time. For most of us, our brains work fairly well, especially when we use the tool of logic. Potential vulnerability to bias does not mean our brains "lie like a dog." That's the logical fallacy of the excluded middle, an error @tvrgeek makes frequently. |
I think there is too much generalization in this thread. The quality of cabling and power cords must be commensurate with the quality of the speakers, amps and sources. Eg. $3000 speaker cables do not make sense for a $3000 pair of speakers and a $3000 amp. Someone may hear a difference but those speakers/amp will never realize the full potential of those cables. The converse, someone with $50k speakers and $20k amps running Belden wiring will never hear the true potential of their equipment. There has to be a balance. Lastly, people react differently when they hear a truly remarkable hi end hifi system. Some are blown away and then make it their life goal to achieve that sound in their home (me). Some think it’s nice but too over the top and just don’t care about it (my brothers). Some don’t see it as a big deal at all and are happy with a Sony boom box (my youngest brother). Take my home theater system. I have a nice Marantz receiver, Monitor Audio Gold 200 speakers and a Sony OLED TV. It’s nothing like my stereo system. It’s a good mid fi set up and I’m fine with that. I can listen to music on it. It’s not holographic and the clarity is not breathtakingly good like my stereo but it is pleasant enough sound. Some things trickle down from my stereo system to my home theater system. For example, the HT system got my Furman Elite power conditioner when I upgraded the stereo to the Niagara 5000. The stereo sound improved quite noticeably. The HT system sound improvement I did not notice so much but the TV picture improvement blew me away. The picture got sharper and the colors brighter. An amazing change. I tried to convince friends and family that they need an $800 power conditioner on their $1000 TVs but no one listened to me. Yes, I have some upgrade power cords on my HT system- trickle down but not anything exotic expensive. When I got the LHY SW-8 network switch, I ran a 75 foot long ethernet cable to my Apple TV box. The streaming picture improved dramatically. The TV picture today looks like a photograph in motion. I am so taken by the picture that I don’t think about the sound so much. And no, I’m not going to run a 75 foot long silver plated ethernet cable to my HT system. Also, I have $400 speaker cables on the HT speakers. When I upgraded my stereo speaker cables from expensive to very expensive I didn’t put the old cables on my HT system. It would not have made much of an improvement in the sound of the HT system. Sure, maybe something but not worth the cost of those cables. Summary: Cables commensurate to the equipment in use. Buy good gear but go cheap on cables and sadly, the full potential will never be realized. Point two: Get a good power conditioner for your TV. In this case an $800 power conditioner for a $1000 TV will make a difference. Ok, my OLED TV cost a little more than that. |
