Help - new house - new setup?

I'm not as convinced as some of the others that the high ceiling is a main contributor to the problem. If the relevant specs of the speaker (89 db/1W/1m efficiency; 6 ohm average impedance; 300W max "music power" capability) are reasonably accurate, they should be able to generate peak SPL's of around 105 db at a listening distance of say 4 meters (about 13 feet), even in an infinitely large space. And I wouldn't expect reflections off of the ceiling to be major factors either at most frequencies, given the lengthy delay in the arrival of those reflections relative to the direct sound arrivals, and also the attenuation that would occur along the way. Certainly wall reflections could be significant factors, though.

Some questions:

1)When you refer to having both A51 and JC1 amplifiers, are you biamping the VR4Jrs with them?

2)If so, what outputs of the 8802 are you connecting to each of them? If you are by any chance connecting RCA outputs of the 8802 to one and XLR outputs of the 8802 to the other, that might result in a 6 db volume differential between the two sections of the speaker, even though the two amps have identical gain specs.

3)When you say "I have 400wpc running at 70%+ at the moment," how do you know that the amp is running at 70%+?

4)Can you describe the positions of the speakers relative to the nearest walls, and the location of the listening position relative to the speakers and to the nearest walls.

Regards,
-- Al

Al
thanks for your response.

I have the system balanced from the 8802 to the A51 and JC1s and to the Fathom 212.

The A51 is driving the centre and rears so does not really come into play on 2 channel.

I have each JC1 biwired to the VR4jrs.

The 8802 shows the %age of volume and it has run from a minimum of 50%(quite low) to about 75%(reasonably high but not rocking levels).

The speakers are about 4 feet from the sidewalls and front of the speakers about 4 feet into the room 11 feet apart and about 12 feet from the listening position toed in about 15 degrees.

I had them in this position in the old place and they sounded really sweet.

I would recommend: Usher BE-10 or BE-20, Revel Salon 2. With the usher BE-20's you probably won't need your subwoofer, but with any of these speakers, you will need a good amp with power to drive the woofers.
Good luck

MusicalAl, thanks for the additional info.

Based on info provided in the 8802 manual, especially on pages 192, 142, and 335, and on the specs for the JC1, it appears that with the "channel level adjust" settings of the 8802 at their default value of 0 db, and assuming you are using the DAC function of the 8802, it can be calculated that at the 75% setting of the volume control you referred to the amp would be driven to just a bit more than 30% of its power capability on the peaks of recordings which are mastered to reach "full scale" (the maximum possible digital value), and somewhat less than that on recordings which are mastered at lower levels.

So it seems to me that you can get significantly higher SPLs simply by turning up the volume control, and/or increasing the "channel level adjust" settings, which can go as high as +12 db as described on page 142 of the manual. Raising the channel level adjust settings would of course give you added volume for a given setting of the main volume control. Obviously, though, don't turn things up to the point where distortion becomes apparent.

Regarding sound quality, it sounds like the listening position is probably only about 2 feet from the wall behind it, which will result in a substantial suckout (reduction) in frequency response in the vicinity of 140 Hz, in the bass region. Using a room treatment product at that location would seem to be in order, and of course quite possibly elsewhere as well.

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al

Having reviewed and owned the VR4SR MkII for a while, I suggest that you move to a more sizable speaker, one which is physically larger and with more prodigious bass drivers. You will only get so much presence from the VR4Jr - this is not a sleight to the speaker, it would be true of any such speaker.

To get a more commanding performance you will need a larger speaker. I suggest you consider one of my longer term favorites, the Wilson Maxx 3 (not sure what you could get it for used, but worth a look), the legacy Whisper (I reviewed and own the custom DSW version I wrote up for Dagogo.com) or Aeris, or consider a prodigious panel such as Sound Lab or Kingsound King III (also reviewed and own). The panel might be a winning idea, as you have good subwoofer action now, and the panel will throw a huge soundstage. If you are not so concerned about dispersion for off axis listening, then I would suggest you seriously consider that option. I think the panels could sound fabulous in such a room. :)

My one concern regarding panels is that you seem to drive the speakers pretty hard. My colleague, Larry Borden, felt the King III couldn't be driven to such high levels as the Sanders hybrid ESL, but I've never had an issue where the King III isn't satisfying at pretty high SPL. But, I don't attempt to make myself go deaf when listening, either. :) You would want to get a second subwoofer if you go that route. You may not even need to listen at the same SPL level with big panels to enjoy the experience more.

Perhaps you should also consider Montana speakers by PBN, and you could probably find a biggie used as well. I would avoid any speaker 4' and under if your goal is to fill the space well and get a prodigious SPL experience. There is no replacing proper sized drivers when that is a primary goal; the nature of the low end is fundamentally different in experience than through an array of smaller bass drivers.

I do not wish to debate my suggestions; I'm simply offering my experiences.

One more thought; if you are currently passively biwiring I suggest you use the "vertical" biwiring method, keeping one amp per speaker, versus the "horizontal" method of splitting the amps' use between speakers. I find the vertical to be a bit better.