When to choice XLR over RCA ICs.


If your IC connections are 1m or less is there a difference between using XLR over RCA Interconnects?

As one moves up the ICs cable lines with a manufacturer (ex. Audioquest) which connections would you upgrade first and in what order.

My system is McIntosh (C12000 two part preamp, Men220 room equalizer, MC611 mono-amps), Audioquest (AQ) Niagara 5000 line conditioner, and Hi-Fi Rose 150b streamer. 

I am currently using AQ Black Beauty XLR ICs. I have a pair of 1m Firebird RCA ICs and would like to replace one of the Black Beauty ICs in system configuration. Future upgrades looking for recommendations. 

Presently using a AQ 2m Thunder 20A power cord from wall socket to Niagara. 

Using 4ft AQ William Tell (Silver) bi-wire combo speaker cable (mono-amps to 800d3 speakers. 

Thank you, Please advise.

Bob

128x128farne230

williewonka

The best low mass RCA connector is significantly better at transferring an audio signal than the very best XLR connector is able to achieve ...

Hmmm, that's quite a claim. It's not too difficult to buy XLR connectors that are essentially electrically perfect, so I don't see how it's possible to get "significantly better" than that.

... the signle ended RCA interconnect for a 1-2 meter cable will always be just a little superior to an XLR ables of a similar design/geometry/build.

Not when used between differentially balanced components that yield 6 dB better gain (or s/n) when operated in balanced mode, such as ARC.

@cleeds - re:

williewonka

The best low mass RCA connector is significantly better at transferring an audio signal than the very best XLR connector is able to achieve ...

Hmmm, that’s quite a claim.

The KLE Innovations RCA have always been outstanding RCA connectors and according to others that have compared them to some very good XLR connectors on cables of similar contruction methods and maerials, the KLEI RCA’s performed better.

  • This goes back abut 7 years and the KLE Innovations RCA have continued to get better in that time

RE:

Not when used between differentially balanced components that yield 6 dB better gain (or s/n) when operated in balanced mode, such as ARC.

In my view, an extra 6db gain does not result in improved dynamics, clarity and details - it’s just louder

Since personal preferemces tend to play a large role in cable selection e.g...

  • I’ve known people that prefered using Duelund tinned copper over pure OCC copper, just because it sounds better to their ears
    • technically, OCC is faster and less prone to the timing distortions that occur when you mix two types of metal

But debating the differences between XLR and RCA for a high performance cable really is a moot point, however...

  • people should be aware that the differences really are miniscule in high quality cables today, so opting for RCA is not really settling for second best any more

If a person really wants to improve their sound by replacing cables then I would really recommend they follow the link included in my first post above which covers the improvements that can be achieved by ensuring their cables use modern geometry, improved metals and insulations and state of the art and connectors.

Regards - Steve

williewonka

... an extra 6db gain does not result in improved dynamics, clarity and details - it's just louder ...

No, it's not just "louder." For the same output level, the differentially balanced connection (such as with ARC) will yield a 6 dB better s/n.

... the signle ended RCA interconnect for a 1-2 meter cable will always be just a little superior to an XLR ables of a similar design/geometry/build.

Why would I forsake that 6 dB gain (or s/n advantage) in a connection such as between pickup arm and phono preamp? That makes no sense. And there's no way your unbalanced connection can equal the noise rejection of a balanced circuit. That's why we have balanced circuits.

In my view, an extra 6db gain does not result in improved dynamics, clarity and details - it’s just louder

Since personal preferemces tend to play a large role in cable selection e.g...

  • I’ve known people that prefered using Duelund tinned copper over pure OCC copper, just because it sounds better to their ears
    • technically, OCC is faster and less prone to the timing distortions that occur when you mix two types of metal

But debating the differences between XLR and RCA for a high performance cable really is a moot point, however...

  • people should be aware that the differences really are miniscule in high quality cables today, so opting for RCA is not really settling for second best any more

No, it's not just "louder." For the same output level, the differentially balanced connection (such as with ARC) will yield a 6 dB better s/n

Why would I forsake that 6 dB gain (or s/n advantage) in a connection such as between pickup arm and phono preamp?

@williewonka @cleeds The 6dB increase in volume only occurs if the balanced line standard is ignored.

For example in the case of a phono cartridge, the output level does not change if the cartridge is operated either way. IOW the cartridge when operated balanced, conforms to AES48 (the balanced standard).

But if operated balanced, you have up to a 6dB improvement in the signal to noise ratio of the gain stage itself. You also have the rejection of noise that is common to the non-inverted and inverted parts of the signal. So a power transformer by the cable is far less able to induce hum into it.

The 6dB improvement in signal to noise of the gain stage is theoretical. The greater the differential effect that is winnowed out of the gain stage the more you approach that possibility. To that end, and this is directed at cleeds, the constant current source feeding the differential amplifier is the key to the differential amplifier's performance. So if you wanted to improve your ARC preamp's performance this would be the thing to investigate. 

I see the really big advantage of balanced lines in that you don't have to have an expensive cable with exotic materials for it to sound just as good as a cable that does have the exotic construction and materials. IOW you get cable immunity. I've demonstrated this many times over the last 40 years.

Where this really plays out well is the tonearm cable! If there is any place to really get it right, this is it, because no matter how good your preamp, amps and speakers are, they can't make up for any losses to the signal upstream.

 

... The 6dB increase in volume only occurs if the balanced line standard is ignored ...

Yes, you’ve pointed that out previously. That’s why I specifically mentioned Audio Research in my example, because that’s the equipment I use.

The 6dB improvement in signal to noise of the gain stage is theoretical

In my example of ARC, it’s listed in the specs, it can be measured and - most important - it can be heard. It is very, very real.

I see the really big advantage of balanced lines in that you don’t have to have an expensive cable

Yes, that is a potential advantage. As we’ve previously discussed, it’s not the only advantage, but I understand you feel passionately about it.