Salk HT3, SF Cremona M, Magnepan 3.7 or ML Ethos?

Yeah with very different rooms and electronics it is hard to tell much. I expect the large room had a big negative impact on the HT3 bass. They really slam with a big amp. Both the Focal 1038s and HT3s are flat down to 33/34 per their mfg specs. But I expect the Focals sound better given how good they are at making drivers etc. and the evolution of the technology. Of course they should - the price is twice as much retail and there aren't many used Focal 1038s out there. I want to hear them sometime. I figure the best case price for admission for the Focals will be around 10k.

Did you change your budget considerations? This last round of speakers you auditioned (Magico, SF Olympica, Focal 1038be and Sopra, etc.) are at least two to three times as much as your originally stated budget of "5K used," and since some of these models are new or recent releases (e.g., Sopra and 1038be) you're not likely to find used ones at half retail for some time.

Your experience with the Maggie 3.7i's, and how they had no imaging to speak of reminds me of something when I was selling audio in the mid-'70s. We had a large mid-fi front room (receivers, integrated amps, bookshelf speakers, cassette decks) and a small high end room in the back (Accuphase, Crown, USA-made Marantz Pro separates, Dahlquist, Ohm, ESS AMT floorstanderrs, and floorstanding JBLs). We were an Advent dealer. When I suggested we set up an "Advent Stack" in the high end room (2 pairs of Larger Advents in stacked pairs) to the manager, he said "No, because if we set those up we won't sell anything else." An Advent Stack would cost half or less than a pair of anything else in the back room.

Given my experience with my Magneplanar 1.7s, vs. Wilsons, Sonus Fabers, Focal, Wharfedale, GoldenEar, and Gallo as recent auditions, I can't help wondering if your local dealer sets up the Magneplanars in a way that keeps the "you get what you pay for" hierarchy intact.

I remember absolutely *melting* a few years ago when I heard some Cremona M's, and I had nowhere near the money to buy them. Not quite 2 yrs ago--after extensive auditioning--I brought home my 1.7s. After letting them settle in and tweaking placement, angle, and subwoofer integration, I am absolutely astounded at how these things make music and I have no desire or temptation to want anything "better."

And I listen to a lot of challenging material on them--fullscale orchestra, opera, oratorios, big band, a capella vocal, baroque brass ensemble with pipe organ, vocals w/big band such as Sinatra and Tony Bennett w/Count Basie, Quincy Jones, etc. It doesn't matter if it features vocal harmony, acoustic instruments, drum solos, brass, vocal solo, 9' grand piano--whatever--it delivers on everything I throw at them, and always with a realistic sized-soundstage that stays put, even when I'm to the left of the left speaker.

+1 on the 1.7's, Johnnyb53. They are an incredible bargain. They are very room sensitive, however. I have a pair that are in perfect condition that I will be selling for around 1.2K because they just won't work in my new small house. In the right room with good clean power, the used 1.7's have to be up there with the very best in price/performance.

Wardl: How big's your new listening room? Any chance you could put the 1.7s up against the wall and then bring them out for listening? If your new listening room is significantly smaller, maybe you could replace the 1.7s with some MMGs. At 20 lbs. per panel, they'd be easy to move to the wall and back for storage vs. listening periods.

@Wardl Yes, I agree the HT3's are surely better than the setup I heard but probably the 1038BE's are nonetheless ahead, that is my feeling. How big (small) is your room that the 1.7's won't work?

@Johnnyb53 I'm still looking for 5K used which is typically 10k new, so it doesn't hurt to hear what I like so when the right used deal comes along I can jump on it. I would not be surprised if my budget increases a bit though, the Focals are tempting but I can't do 10k. However with the new line out they have already dropped in price (I believe they used to be >10k?) and maybe they will come down more as its not much of a gap between the 1038BE's and the Sopra's (it's a bit odd how they've positioned the Sopra's...).

I don't think the Maggie dealer was compromising the setup, but I suppose I can't be sure. However, I can say the fellow was a huge Maggie fan, has had them in his system at home for 20+ years and swears they are the best thing since sliced bread. The 3.7i's were being driven by Classe mono blocks and a Classe dac/pre. I've never heard Classe products before, but I was not under the impression that they are bad. IMO the room was too small for the 3.7i's but I've read other positive reviews of them where the room size was similar. So it could have been the room size or it could have been positioning of the panels themselves. I will go back and take another listen.

Do you both not see the sound being "blocked" by the panels and the sound stage being confined entirely between the panels? This is what annoyed me the most about both the 3.7i's and 1.7's when I heard them the first time.

Johhny, what made you melt when you heard the Cremona M's? I was hoping to like the Olympica III's with the idea that the Cremona M's may be a similar speaker that I could afford, but I was really disappointed. I liked the Olympica I (monitors) but I don't like the way they've implemented the bass in the floor stander. Perhaps it is also the type of music I listen to, I am not very much into classical/band/orchestra. I do love piano (eg. Rachmaninoff) and sax, but otherwise I typically listen to electronica of some variety, with the odd pop and alt/rock thrown in. They are, of course, drop dead gorgeous to look at with impeccable build quality, exactly what one expects of quality made-in-Italy products.

Wardl, if you're in the midwest you should bring your 1.7's out to my place for a jam session.. I'll buy you many beers :) ... and who knows what else ;)