Apple Lossless vs iTunes Plus

Timing information? You pull down the audio from a CD into a WAV, the timing information is encoded as samples in the WAV file. The exact same samples are encoded into the FLAC or ALAC.

Timing information discrepancies are going to come from how your hardware deals with the PCM data, well after the software encode/decode stages. The PCM data itself will be binary-identical.

Can you explain to me how two binary-identical PCM data sets can sound different? Unless your hardware is locking on to one signal at 44.1 khz and the other at something not-44.1 khz (48, 96, etc.) they will sound the same.

You can believe that you can tell the difference 10/10 times. Fundamentals of mathematics and computer science prove unequivocally that you cannot in reality do so, regardless of what you believe. This is evident by lossless video, lossless image, and lossless _insert_filetype_ methods elsewhere that repeatedly and accurately reproduce the source from the compressed format. Audio is not special in this regard. Audiophilia is however.

FLAC and ALAC are either lossless, or they are not. If they are lossless, then they will produce identical results. If they are not, then they will have differences. So, simply test for wether or not they are lossless (as I outlined before). You can perform this test empirically and objectively, quite easily disproving subjective differences as bias.

Naschbac,

What you say makes a lot of sense. As long as the software is "bit transparent" then there should be no difference. There is some info on Headfi discussion forums about this issue under the Benchmark DAC1 threads.

You can believe that you can tell the difference 10/10 times. Fundamentals of mathematics and computer science prove unequivocally that you cannot in reality do so

I believe that in reality I can do so. Mathematics or computer science may have nothing to do why, and perhaps I don't understand it. Yet one file sounds consistently better to me. He actually supplied me with three files initially, and I also had a WAV file I had ripped myself of the same song. I picked out the single file from the four as sounding better, and I had no idea of what he was giving me or why. He just asked that I listen to the three and that I might be surprised by what I heard. The other three files all sounded the same, or too close to make a distinction, but one kept standing out with greater clarity, separation and slightly better bass.

I will give a blind test a try next time I have someone over who's willing to spend the time to conduct it. Heck, I'll give the test to someone who has no clue as to what they're listening to and see what happens. Hey, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to pick it out each time. I care as much about mathematics proving me wrong as I would about a tube amp not measuring up well by conventional standards. Ultimately you have to listen to it, and if you like what you are hearing better on one over another, what does it matter? FTR I am not re-ripping my entire library to conform to the convention my friend used. It's actually a royal PITA and I would not consider it. The difference is not that profound, even though I can clearly hear it.

Ping me off the thread if you are interested in the files in question. I can post them later on and give you a link to download, listen and analyze the two files yourself. As I said, my system is pretty resolving and I'm quite sure I cannot tell any difference at all on my office system. So it will not surprise me at all if you cannot hear a difference on a less resolving system. I'd be curious to hear what you come up with. Maybe I need to up my medication!

Mathematics or computer science may have nothing to do why, and perhaps I don't understand it.

It is probably related to software bugs. If the algorithms were bit transparent then it ought to sound the same.

It very well could be, Shadorne. I don't know...I can only tell you what I hear.

I seem recall reading something recently about the newest version of iTunes making some difference in the sound of ripped files of the same types.