Apple Lossless vs iTunes Plus

Yeah, I got to hear a friends' ModWright Transporter and was very impressed. One of the top digital sources I've heard. That experience was the first time I actually felt a positive reaction to any digital gear that made think, "Perhaps we will get 'There' someday soon".

Spender - Yes, it really is a damn fine digital front end (certainly the best I've heard), and in our comparisons that weekend we both picked it out consistently in blind comparisons to the other digital sources we had (Empirical, Northstar, Electrocompaniet) as our preference without any exception. Your friend will probably tell you that rolling the tubes (1 rectifier and 2 output tubes) in the MW TP can have a tremendous impact on the presentation (I think because they are closer to the source - well, they are at the source). I've never heard swapping a rectifier tube make such a large difference in any amp I've owned, but in the TP the difference can be profound. There's a tube-rolling thread for the MWTP on Audiocircle that is currently running at 56 pages of posts, to give you some idea of what I'm talking about. If your friend hasn't checked that out they should as it may open up a whole new level of performance to them. To save them the long read - The almost universally favored combination with occasional variations, is the EML 5U4G Mesh combined with either 6CG7 cleartops, or 6SN7 Tungsol Rounds with octal adapters (the TP has 9-pin output sockets). There's also some discussion on other threads where some report a marginal preference of running the network into the TP via a wired ethernet connection. The TP also has a word-clock input, which I've wanted to try with my friend's PaceCar (not sure how that would work out).

Sorry to dig up this old thread, but I was looking for information about how iTunes Plus compares with lossless audio. Unfortunately no one really addressed the original poster's question.

I realize that mathematically, if you have 3 apples on a table and eat 1, there will be 2 left. Lots of people swearing there are still 3 apples on the table, regardless what science and mathematics are saying. It's really that simple. I'm with ya Naschbac.

But we should be comparing a specific lossy algorithm (iTunes Plus) to lossless compression. There is a technical difference in the sound, but double-blind tests need to be performed to determine if that difference is detectable by human ears.

A similar experiment has already been conducted to compare CD with SACD; the results are interesting. I would like to see the same done with not only lossy compression, but all other links in the audio chain. Results will show that in some equipment there is absolutely no detectable (or technical) difference in what we hear from one inexpensive piece to the next very expensive piece.

Digital cables for example should all produce identical signals from one end to the other. Contrarily, speaker cables produce different signals, but given the same material and thickness the difference I predict would not be detectable by listening. Other results will show that there is a slightly detectable difference (amplifiers maybe? speakers before/after burn-in?), and still others will show that everyone notices the difference (speakers? Bose vs BrandX?).

See now I am off topic :).

I think it would be great to debunk some of the audio myths out there, but I would also like to know if there is any noticable difference between iTunes Plus and lossless compression.

I have done blind testing with AAC lossy at 256K and Apple Lossless. A group of six audiophiles could not hear any differences between CD, WAV and various lossless files. Further, we could not hear any differences until the bit rate was below 256 KB. Once under 128 KB, differences were obvious.

The above results are heresy to audiophools but modern audiophilia is a religion as you need to have faith and believe to hear the differences that they espouse.

Grege,

I have done the same. 256 Kbps with a good compression (like AAC) will not be identified by most people on most music. There will always be exceptions but once you get to 256 of higher then exceptions become vanishingly small.

Sadly most do not understand the implications of this.

Grege, Shadorne - my experience has been the same. While I'm perfectly willing to accept that some people can distinguish differences between lossless files and high bit-rate mp3's, what I've found is that at 256 or 320 kbps I stop thinking about the fidelity and just enjoy the music.