Some thoughts on ASR and the reviews


I’ve briefly taken a look at some online reviews for budget Tekton speakers from ASR and Youtube. Both are based on Klippel quasi-anechoic measurements to achieve "in-room" simulations.

As an amateur speaker designer, and lover of graphs and data I have some thoughts. I mostly hope this helps the entire A’gon community get a little more perspective into how a speaker builder would think about the data.

Of course, I’ve only skimmed the data I’ve seen, I’m no expert, and have no eyes or ears on actual Tekton speakers. Please take this as purely an academic exercise based on limited and incomplete knowledge.

1. Speaker pricing.

One ASR review spends an amazing amount of time and effort analyzing the ~$800 US Tekton M-Lore. That price compares very favorably with a full Seas A26 kit from Madisound, around $1,700. I mean, not sure these inexpensive speakers deserve quite the nit-picking done here.

2. Measuring mid-woofers is hard.

The standard practice for analyzing speakers is called "quasi-anechoic." That is, we pretend to do so in a room free of reflections or boundaries. You do this with very close measurements (within 1/2") of the components, blended together. There are a couple of ways this can be incomplete though.

a - Midwoofers measure much worse this way than in a truly anechoic room. The 7" Scanspeak Revelators are good examples of this. The close mic response is deceptively bad but the 1m in-room measurements smooth out a lot of problems. If you took the close-mic measurements (as seen in the spec sheet) as correct you’d make the wrong crossover.

b - Baffle step - As popularized and researched by the late, great Jeff Bagby, the effects of the baffle on the output need to be included in any whole speaker/room simulation, which of course also means the speaker should have this built in when it is not a near-wall speaker. I don’t know enough about the Klippel simulation, but if this is not included you’ll get a bass-lite expereinced compared to real life. The effects of baffle compensation is to have more bass, but an overall lower sensitivity rating.

For both of those reasons, an actual in-room measurement is critical to assessing actual speaker behavior. We may not all have the same room, but this is a great way to see the actual mid-woofer response as well as the effects of any baffle step compensation.

Looking at the quasi anechoic measurements done by ASR and Erin it _seems_ that these speakers are not compensated, which may be OK if close-wall placement is expected.

In either event, you really want to see the actual in-room response, not just the simulated response before passing judgement. If I had to critique based strictly on the measurements and simulations, I’d 100% wonder if a better design wouldn’t be to trade sensitivity for more bass, and the in-room response would tell me that.

3. Crossover point and dispersion

One of the most important choices a speaker designer has is picking the -3 or -6 dB point for the high and low pass filters. A lot of things have to be balanced and traded off, including cost of crossover parts.

Both of the reviews, above, seem to imply a crossover point that is too high for a smooth transition from the woofer to the tweeters. No speaker can avoid rolling off the treble as you go off-axis, but the best at this do so very evenly. This gives the best off-axis performance and offers up great imaging and wide sweet spots. You’d think this was a budget speaker problem, but it is not. Look at reviews for B&W’s D series speakers, and many Focal models as examples of expensive, well received speakers that don’t excel at this.

Speakers which DO typically excel here include Revel and Magico. This is by no means a story that you should buy Revel because B&W sucks, at all. Buy what you like. I’m just pointing out that this limited dispersion problem is not at all unique to Tekton. And in fact many other Tekton speakers don’t suffer this particular set of challenges.

In the case of the M-Lore, the tweeter has really amazingly good dynamic range. If I was the designer I’d definitely want to ask if I could lower the crossover 1 kHz, which would give up a little power handling but improve the off-axis response.  One big reason not to is crossover costs.  I may have to add more parts to flatten the tweeter response well enough to extend it's useful range.  In other words, a higher crossover point may hide tweeter deficiencies.  Again, Tekton is NOT alone if they did this calculus.

I’ve probably made a lot of omissions here, but I hope this helps readers think about speaker performance and costs in a more complete manner. The listening tests always matter more than the measurements, so finding reviewers with trustworthy ears is really more important than taste-makers who let the tools, which may not be properly used, judge the experience.

erik_squires

One ASR review spends an amazing amount of time and effort analyzing the ~$800 US Tekton M-Lore. That price compares very favorably with a full Seas A26 kit from Madisound, around $1,700. I mean, not sure these inexpensive speakers deserve quite the nit-picking done here.

There is no attempt at "nit-picking."  You can't analyze a speaker properly without the full suite of measurements I show from various frequency responses to distortion and directivity.  Only then you have a picture of a speaker performance and can compare it to others.

Believe me, I would love to take shortcuts given how much work it is to test a speaker but I can't.

Running the same set of measurements also eliminates the accusation of bias.  Everything is tested the same way regardless of who makes it, how much it costs, etc.

Finally, $800 is fair bit of money for a speaker.  Even if i were inclined to reduce the number of test, it would be for something far cheaper.

b - Baffle step - As popularized and researched by the late, great Jeff Bagby, the effects of the baffle on the output need to be included in any whole speaker/room simulation, which of course also means the speaker should have this built in when it is not a near-wall speaker. I don’t know enough about the Klippel simulation, but if this is not included you’ll get a bass-lite expereinced compared to real life. The effects of baffle compensation is to have more bass, but an overall lower sensitivity rating.

As I explained above, Klippel NFS fully computes the 3-D sounfield of a speaker.  It does NOT suffer from baffle step issues you mention.  Stereophile measurements though, have this error and hence the reason you routinely see a false bass hump in their frequency response graphs.

Please watch this tutorial video to get proper understanding of ASR speaker measurements:

 

The ASR crowd was probably never much of a market for his speakers, and as we can see here, lots of people are not very impressed with the way ASR does reviews.

That is a misstatement.  Tekton advertises the M-Lore has having very linear (flat) response which would definitely appeal to ASR membership:

 

Problem is that it doesn't deliver on that:

 

But you are right that if Eric Alexander had stuck to the story that measurements don't matter, all would be well. Instead, he complained about the measurements so here we are.

But I agree regarding the culture over at ASR and Amir.  He came into the Roon forum to debate Michal Jurewicz from Mytek.  Some of the other members became involved and Amir was quite arrogant and condescending.

Far more people appreciated my posts than anything from Michal.  He would keep repeating the same marketing stories without a single fact backing them.  I was impressed to see Roon members not appreciate that and valuing specific data, references, etc. that demonstrated his claims to be wrong. 

"Arrogance" in my view is claiming something and demanding to be believed.  I never do that.

I think that ASR has chosen an extreme stance not for any particular reason except to incite an even greater amount of tribalism in this hobby.

Nope.  The "stance" I have taken is follow proper science and engineering.  This uses to be the norm in 1970s and 1980s.  Sometime later, folks started to abandoned this and instead, started to tell stories about products.  Audiophiles bought them and this allowed the market to deliver all manner of products that when tested, don't seem to perform.  Instead of doing their best to produce high fidelity gear, a lot of audio companies rely completely on marketing and informercials pretending to be reviews.

As consumers, you need to be more critical and ask for proof.  Don't equate expense with fidelity.  That equation has long been thrown out the door.