SUT help


Hello all,

I've combed the forums and pretty much every SUT thread either devolves into arguments of the merits for/against, or gets hyper specific. I'm assuming to properly match a SUT, it needs to be selected based on the cartridge AND phono pre-amp. Since I haven't found a thread about my specific combo...here I am.

I don't know a TON about SUTs, but I'd like to experiment to see if adding one will enhance my experience.

Currently, my cartridge is a Hana ML and my phono pre-amp is the Modwright PH 9.0XT. I may possibly move up to the Hana Umami Red in the nearish future, but the specs are fairly similar between that and the ML.

Hana ML specs: 0.4mv; 7 ohm/1khz
Hana Umami Red specs: 0.4mv; 6 ohm/1khz

Modwright PH 9.0xt - MM input is 52db gain, with option to lower -6 and -12 to 46db and 40db.

I currently use the MC input which offers 64db of gain (-6, -12). I've typically kept it at 64db and alternate between 100ohm and 250ohm for load impedance settings. The 470 is too much.

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Not sure if its possible to have a SUT that would work well with both the ML and umami red, but if so, I'm all ears. If not and they each need specific ones, I'd be considering the ML first and foremost.

Any help is appreciated. I don't really have any clue how to determine what ratio is best and whether copper or silver pair better with these cartridges. I had EM/IA recommended to me in the past, but their pricing is well beyond what I'd like to spend on one (~$1500 or less, ideally?)

128x128mmcgill829

I am not seeking a route away from a SUT. 

My assessments to date have kept me close to them as a device to be used with a LOMC.

Most recently the very analytical assessing has been carried out on same support > same Plinth > same TT >same TA+Heads he'll, with same and similar Cart's from the same Brand.

Experiences are had with SS, Valve Hybrid, Valve Input/Valve Output, SUT's, or Head Amp. 

One  SS MC Input/ MM Input Phon used, is one I am seriously considering owning. I Struggle to see where there is wrong, as I can contentedly  listen to a MC Input without any concern, on the Phon's used, The end sound is fine and living with it for an extended period, is a welcome experience. 

Put a particular design for an SUT or Head Amp into the 0 and I find it hard to wish for anything different. 

I have from an audible experience no issue with the recent description a distortion is introduced, of which to a certain individual is an attraction. 

From an audible experience based on my ability to detect information extracted from the Groove, the options I have around me to use as  Phonostages are all seemingly with a Parity for being Spacious and Detailed.

I would say the SUT has the edge on creating the perception of being Involving and wanted to be maintained in use. 

My Perceptions of how an analytical period of listening impacts om me as an individual with unique preferences for an end sound. 

Pindac, I have no doubt that what you say is a true summation of your personal experience. I can only suggest that maybe you haven’t sampled some of the very best high gain phono stages. This is not to say that I would argue the superiority of any single approach to amplifying LOMC cartridges. Also, I might point out that a “head amp” either voltage driven or current driven is naught but an outboard gain stage that mimics the gain characteristics of a good high gain MC stage, which puts everything in one circuit without the necessity for a separate chassis and an added pair of ICs.

To the OP..no worries…. beehive is where the honey is.

Somebody said pick the distortions you like… i add nothing ( so far )  is free ….

I have in one system a highly modified vintage tube amp w what i consider to be some of the best output transformers ever made….so i’m not as pure as the driven snow….

Have fun…i looked at your system photos…lovey curated gestalt….

@tomic601 That is quite true!

I am not of the camp that aspires to absolute purity above all else. Somewhere in the middle is where I like to land, so I’m not quite as concerned about being ’distortion free.’ I mean, most of my gear is tube gear in some capacity...

All that being said, I don’t think there is a right or wrong approach here. Just depends on what sounds good to our ears in our own systems.

I do appreciate hearing lots of different perspectives, however, and it’s given me plenty of things to consider in addition to the answer to my actual original question.

EDIT: also, thank you very much for the compliment!

@lewm I don't think I have heard the very best of anything the commercial world can put out as an Audio Device, especially Phonostage. Who has in this thread? 

In my limitation to nearly all Audio Experiences being UK Bound, I do think I have experienced in known systems, a very good Commercial Offering in Phon's upto £15K.

At Events I have heard commercial offered Phon's that far exceed the £15K.

I have been very familiar with Commission Built Phon's upto £8K where bespoke parts are produced for the design. 

I have heard DIY Built Phon's  where the BOM is close to  £2.5K

I am very familiar with an extensive range of Phon's and shortlisted only a few, and also had one commission built to meet my own needs.

Help me out please, when the Phon' of Phon's does become available for my experiencing. How do I capitalise on this opportunity.

Must the TA be the £60K Sat. 

Must the LOMC be over £20K

Must the TT be north of £80Kish

Must the Interconnects be £20K+

What must the Downstream equate to £250Kish.

Would I be wrong to try out a SUT or Head when such a Audio Set Up is assembled. 

I don't want the 'so called' best, I'm happy with the cut of ribs or offal. 

But what I really want, is simply something that makes the idea of it sticking around attractive. I have got this in many owned items to be used for Audio and Music Replay purposes. 

It is important the OP knows this and those looking in without comment made.