2. analog
  3. 189527-245

MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?

Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question :  " true " answer.

 

Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.

 

Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.

 

In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread  I remember that he was truly emphatic  posting that my MM conclusion was not  true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.

 

Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.

 

I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.

 

I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind )  MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.

 

So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.

 

I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.

 

We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges  as an " isolated " audio item and that  any of our opinions when be posible  stay in the premise: " everything the same ".

 

My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.

 

So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.

 

Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,112 posts
 

Dear @robert53  : Thank's for the new 2024 cartridge link..

Obviously " more of the same "  due that  in that regards nothing really can chage totally.

The Dartzeel cartridge looks as a heavy $$$ one and the information about says nothing special:

 

Model: FS 00 Founder Series

 

  • Body ULH gilded with gold leaf
  • Cantilever Squared diamond
  • Stylus material Pure natural (non synthetic) diamond
  • Stylus shape darTZeel ultimate proprietary shape
  • Output voltage 0.066 mV
  • Output impedance 2 ohms
  • Coils – one single layer pure silver coated copper
  • Frequency response 10 Hz – 100 kHz ± 1.5 dB
  • Rise / fall time less than 1.5 µs
  • Channel separation > 30 dB

 

Dartzeel has other new cartridges:

 

FS01 Founder Series

 

  • Premium service
  • Two free retips included within 5 years following delivery.
  • Custom installation by the darTZeel team and/or Hervé Delétraz himself.
  • CHF 53’535.35

Description

  • Body ULH machined wood
  • Cantilever Squared diamond
  • Stylus material Pure natural (non synthetic) diamond
  • Stylus shape darTZeel proprietary shape
  • Output voltage 0.077 mV
  • Output impedance 4 ohms
  • Coils pure silver coated copper
  • Frequency response 15 Hz – 25 kHz ± 1.5 dB
  • Rise / fall time less than 2 µs
  • Channel separation > 28 dB

 

and the FS02 Founder Series

 

  • Premium service
  • Two free retips included within 5 years following delivery.
  • Custom installation by the darTZeel team and/or Hervé Delétraz himself.
  • CHF 42’424.24

Description

  • Body ULH machined wood
  • Cantilever Ruby
  • Stylus material Pure natural (non synthetic) diamond
  • Stylus shape darTZeel proprietary shape
  • Output voltage 0.088 mV
  • Output impedance 5 ohms
  • Coils pure silver coated copper
  • Frequency response 20 Hz – 22 kHz ± 1.5 dB
  • Rise / fall time less than 2.5 µs
  • Channel separation > 28 dB

 

What all these cartridges shares is its very low output that the DartZeel phonolinepreamp can handled with out problem due that its active high gain stage goes at over 83db of amplification.

 

Well, we have to wait for owners opinion in its quality level performance and how compares against the top today cartridges. We will see.

 

R.

 

 

 

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,112 posts
 

Dear friends: DartZeel showwed in June-2023 a prototype ( @mlavigne  was there. ) and from the information in this link seems that the cartridge price includes a phono stage but I can’t be sure today:

 

DartZeel Phono Cartridge (audioshark.org)

 

R.

pindac's avatar
pindac
2,864 posts
 

I have been impressed in a way that is difficult to describe as a result of my experiencing a Carefully Thought Out Approach to producing a Low Eddy Signal Path in use on the Circuit between Cartridge to Power Amp.

I do know the Low Eddy Approach is now in use on the Power Amp connections as well.

This is something at present that is the highest of priorities to attempt to get right when I rebuild my system, which might prove to be the most cost effective betterment I have achieved in a very long time.

My search to Compliment the Low Eddy experience extended to discovering if devices used were specifically produced from Scratch to improve on the Management of a Low Eddy Signal. My interest being I would attempt to introduce these items as a curiosity to see where furthering the benefits might be realised.

My Search lead me to a discovery that is at present Free and unfortunately at resent I am not able to experience the part as I would like, which leaves the experience to be postponed.

The ECC System will have to wait for my own purposes.

Hopefully a Forum Member will Jump at the chance to experience for Free a affordable Cart' that has build standards and material selection not usually adopted that should be off appeal.

The Link will introduce Forum Members to a option for a Cart' that is very very realistic.

I have not heard this Cart' in use, so can't make a statement with conviction.

I will suggest, by using such a Cart' as the 'LS 10MkII' with a Phon' like a Paradise, or a Design like one produced by Salas.

For not too much monies there is plenty of memorable experiences to be had.

There is also a good Possibility a Phon' will be discovered that is not wanted to be exchanged.

Obviously my references to a Phon' of a certain type, are met with something that resembles the Viv Tonearm debacle. Look how many were convinced their usage was correct and the converts that manifested as the futile discussions kept on spieling out. 

My own introducing the Le Son Cart' Brand to this thread will most likely be met with Similar Viv Arm duplicated moments.

I really don't care, the options put out, are obtainable and reachable by many who are merely attempting to learn how to refine their listening to their Album collection.

My advise is silly monies are not a requirement to listen to an Album. 

pindac's avatar
pindac
2,864 posts
 

 

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,112 posts
 

Btw and about those DartZeel cartridges: even that what @mikelavigne  listened in that show he posted that sounds " very very good " and he listened through an analog rig similar to one of the 3-4 he owns and his Dartzeel electronics. This for me says a " lot " and I could think that the finished cartridge is even better.

The issue is how good is the cartridge in a non Dartzeel electronics.

 

It's weird that in the DartZeel web-site does not appears the cartridges.

 

R.

 

R.

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