MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?


Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question :  " true " answer.

 

Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.

 

Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.

 

In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread  I remember that he was truly emphatic  posting that my MM conclusion was not  true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.

 

Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.

 

I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.

 

I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind )  MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.

 

So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.

 

I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.

 

We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges  as an " isolated " audio item and that  any of our opinions when be posible  stay in the premise: " everything the same ".

 

My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.

 

So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.

 

Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas

@lewm : The 2500 was the top of the line and builded before the latest Astatic Series 100 where my MF200 belongs. Btw, the inductance in the 2500 is a little higher at 120mH against the 90 mH in the MF 200. The stylus in the 2500 was as in the MF100 line contact where in my 200 is Shibata shape.

Btw, normally when I send any of my vintage cartridges to a retipper I look that Joseph Long try to mantain the cartridge as near original and normally too I ask to change only the stylus and never the cantilever.

That 2500 I owned and is truly fine performer. Good luck with .

 

R.

Dear @groovey : Good that you still have that Empire cartridge that’s very good performer. I still own almost all Empire models but the EDR that I sold, the best of my Empire is the 4000 DIII that’s excellent. The flyer in the link is interesting on the 4000:

Empire 4000 Wide Response 4-Channel Cartridge Manual | Vinyl Engine

 

Btw, I like your 240Ti, in those times I was behind the top trapezoidal shape ones but I never had the kind of money to do it.

 

R.

Raul I was very lucky, I was in the Netherlands and we had a stereo club at the base exchange, and we got very good prices and a no interest layaway , I bought the 240 TI's for a bargain price. At the time one dollar was 31/2 guilders.  It was a Dutch base, one guider had the same buying power as one dollar for most things on base.
I've carried them all around the world and back. I have my eye on some second hand equipment I don't want to say which here in case anybody goes for it before I can close the deal but as soon as I get the phono pre I will be in touch to see what you think would be a good upgrade. When I received my first Empire EDR 9 MM it was welcome to the New World, Turn table dot com has a tech approved replacement BLISS Shibata stylus for the EDR 9 if that interests you. I may go with the clear audio V2 and trade in my V1, but I will be looking for a nice moving coil to compare for myself to see if moving magnet and moving coil in the same price range are comparable, or if moving magnets are superior for the same money!

 

Thanks, Raul. Joseph is a good guy. I’ll contact him. I actually have an extra stylus assembly in which the metal structure along with cantilever and stylus have come unglued from the brown plastic yoke that supports them. Last night I looked at both styli under my microscope. I can’t see any sign of severe wear on either but the cartridge sounds bad(with the intact stylus assembly, of course). 

Dear @groovey  : The Empire is not a MM cartridge design but a MI and I made that same mistake in my review of the Empire 4000D3 that we can read in this link: Btw, Empire Scientific was not the builder of its cartridges but Nippon Azden that designed its own Azden great cartridge lines MI and LOMC cartridges.

Good to see you again in Agon:

 

Audiogon Discussion Forum

 

R.