Raul, I’ve never heard the Hyperion, but to be fair an error of +/-1db, as quoted for it, does not allow for 2db of error at any single frequency, as I’m sure you know. Furthermore the Hyperion excels at channel separation and at a few other standard parameters. Do the latter excellent numbers make it a great cartridge? In my mind, no. The only thing that counts is listening.
MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?
Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question : " true " answer.
Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.
Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.
In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread I remember that he was truly emphatic posting that my MM conclusion was not true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.
Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.
I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.
I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind ) MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.
So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.
I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.
We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges as an " isolated " audio item and that any of our opinions when be posible stay in the premise: " everything the same ".
My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.
So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.
Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.
- ...
- 335 posts total
The Math alone is a guide, The Math alone will assist with isolating certain Cart's to be recognised, to be worthwhile listening to. The Math alone is not an End Sound, and almost all are using the End Sound as the method of Evaluation. If the Audible Experience is not had, there is not any real substantiation to a assessment being made or offered as a description. Math, Materials used for the production, along with the interfacing mechanically and electronically are what would be considered the factors that influence the End Sound, of which there are numerous permutations and not all used will ever be known about within one forum. It is always best to spread ones investigations wide and increase the knowledge base, |
Actually it’s rare for a manufacturer to quote frequency response with upper and lower db boundaries. For a cartridge, +/- 1db between 20 and 20khz would seem to be excellent, keeping in mind we’re not talking about RIAA accuracy in a phono stage. Lyra claim 10 to 50kHz with no upper and lower boundaries. We can imagine those boundaries are much wider than +/- 1db. Also, for any of these data to have real meaning, you’d want to know more about levels and the measuring method. |
Dear @lewm : " The only thing that counts is listening. " really? " For a cartridge, +/- 1db between 20 and 20khz would seem to be excellent, keeping in mind we’re not talking about RIAA accuracy " really?
Please keepin mind that other that the LP the cartridge is nothing less than the SOURCE from where comes the MUSIC and is for me way more important that even the RIAA eq.accuracy and keep in mind too that that cartridge price tag is 10K not " penauts ". Transient response along all the otherMUSIC reproduction desired characteristics starts in the cartridge as starts some of the added " colorations/distortions " .
I owned and own alot of cartridges:LOMC,MM,MI, HOMC and the like and I have a lot of cartridges FR charts with measuresat that FR range/crosstalk temperature during the measures VTF used and other parameters where you can see that several any kind of cartridge motor designs its charts show " dead flat " frequency response and the manufacturers gave to the customers these kind of information due to its critical importance.
Sorry, because I know for sure you are not stupid, but could be an stupidity to talk of "listening " or " excellent " FR when the owner ( forgeret about charts.) posted that HF brigth that he had to tamed thrhoughhis digital processor. A cartridge must has dead flat FR in that frequency range. Ortofon is an exception because they do in purpose the FR deviation that I explained here in the forum several times why Ortofon does that.
In the past mijostyn showed a constant way of thinking and showeda demanding attitude in audio but in the last times he showed some of that " conformism " ( as you ) but I know that he is not conformist but the other way around. In the other side we can be sure that he does not paid those full 10K for that cartridge.
Btw, Where in " hell " is that " proudly " cantilever resin for damping. From where comes that " brigth " andother things? Btw too, I posted a Swing of 2db. Anyway 1db FR deviation at any discret frequency affects the surrounded frequencies too and for me is unacceptable for all what I posted here and several other reasons. Don't you think?,my opinion only just like yours. Of course that I can be totally wrong but all those is what make sense to me.
R.
|
Take a closer look at those data that used to come routinely in the box with a new cartridge. They often show errors from flat of 1db. My other point was that no magnetic cartridge is flat in its output, because output goes up with frequency due to increasing stylus velocity. Therefore you’re looking at the output after RIAA filtering is applied. So that adds a source of error in assessing what the cartridge is really doing. I do quite agree that $10,000 is too costly, and I’m dubious about cactus needles. But I wouldn’t condemn the idea without listening. My other point is that currently most cartridge makers don’t even make a claim as regards the upper and lower boundaries of frequency response, including Lyra. |
- 335 posts total