MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?

Dear @lewm  :  " The only thing that counts is listening. "   really?

" For a cartridge, +/- 1db between 20 and 20khz would seem to be excellent, keeping in mind we’re not talking about RIAA accuracy "   really?

Please keepin mind that other that the LP the cartridge is nothing less than the SOURCE from where comes the MUSIC and is for me way more important that even the RIAA eq.accuracy and keep in mind too that that cartridge price tag is 10K not " penauts ".

Transient response along all the otherMUSIC reproduction desired characteristics starts in the cartridge as starts some of the added " colorations/distortions " .

I owned and own alot of cartridges:LOMC,MM,MI, HOMC and the like and I have a lot of cartridges FR charts with measuresat that FR range/crosstalk temperature during the measures VTF used and other parameters where you can see that several any kind of cartridge motor designs its charts show " dead flat " frequency response and the manufacturers gave to the customers these kind of information due to its critical importance.

Sorry, because I know for sure you are not stupid, but could be an stupidity to talk of "listening " or " excellent " FR when the owner ( forgeret about charts.) posted that HF brigth that he had to tamed thrhoughhis digital processor.

A cartridge must has dead flat FR in that frequency range. Ortofon is an exception because they do in purpose the FR deviation that I explained here in the forum several times why Ortofon does that.

In the past mijostyn showed a constant way of thinking and showeda demanding attitude in audio but in the last times he showed some of that " conformism " ( as you ) but I know that he is not conformist but the other way around. In the other side we can be sure that he does not paid those full 10K for that cartridge.

Btw, Where in " hell " is that " proudly " cantilever resin for damping. From where comes that " brigth " andother things?

Btw too, I posted a Swing of 2db. Anyway 1db FR deviation at any discret frequency affects the surrounded frequencies too and for me is unacceptable for all what I posted here and several other reasons.

Don't you think?,my opinion only just like yours.

 Of course that I can be totally wrong but all those is what make sense to me.

R.

Take a closer look at those data that used to come routinely in the box with a new cartridge. They often show errors from flat of 1db. My other point was that no magnetic cartridge is flat in its output, because output goes up with frequency due to increasing stylus velocity. Therefore you’re looking at the output after RIAA filtering is applied. So that adds a source of error in assessing what the cartridge is really doing. I do quite agree that $10,000 is too costly, and I’m dubious about cactus needles. But I wouldn’t condemn the idea without listening.

My other point is that currently most cartridge makers don’t even make a claim as regards the upper and lower boundaries of frequency response, including Lyra. 

@lewm  : I remember your same doubt about cartridge dead flat FR and I remember too that @dover  posted a link witrh the FR chart of his beloved Dynavector 13D that showed dead flat FR and as I said exist several cartridges with that kind of quality levels.

In the other side you posted that that cartridge " excels on channel separaion and other parameters " where the manufacturer just does not hows those measures.

Here you can see a real time measures in 3 diferent vintaje LOMC cartridges where Joseph Long re-tippiped ( change of stylus only ) and you can see excellent separation in cartridge channels that was something normal and not something " excellent " as you posted:

Cartridge pictures Raúl (canva.com)

Along those I sended to him the vintage Ortofon MC3000 MK2 and he eail to me:

" 

and this is what Joseph email me along the picture:

" the Ortofon is testing very impressively.  Over 40dB channel separation.  Excellent sound. "

the picture:

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

and that cartridge has a hole in its body side, yes a hole.

You need to learn a little more about cartridges measures and history about. Your today way of thinking has no foundation.

R.

I have been myself unsure about certain ideas selected for the using of a material type to be utilised for the purposes of producing Audio related equipment.

Stepping away from Metals only to Thermoplastic / Metals, that took a bit of convincing.

Stepping away from certain Tonearm Designs to a design utilising new very very stable materials, machined to unusual tolerances for a Tonearm of such a Value, the experience of such a design, was profound in how my thoughts were altered and the idea of making change become overwhelming.

The idea of selecting Beryllium as a Cantilever over other readily available options and the satisfaction that is to be had from it being used, has been substantial.

Now there is a New Approach to a particular Cantilever Material and the intent to avoid using a particular usually used material assembled into the Cart'..

Everything to date equates to, their is little to concern myself about. Those who are in the know, and have passed their knowledge on to myself, having proved the value of their knowledge tenfold to me.

I am not doubting in anyway my new intention to draw on another's knowledge, and use the not too common methods they are advocates off.

A Bespoke Build Cartridge and Bespoke Design for a very impressive Tonearm, to be produced as a Underhung Geometry are both potentially available, and steadily being encouraged to be produced.  I see no reason why both are not to be realised and used regularly. There is plenty to suggest from assessments made of such unusual practices, that plenty is on offer.  

@lewm  : that cartridge not only not excelin separation but unfortunatelly in no other parameter.

After FR themostobvious and important cartridge parameter is its tracking abilitiesand in this critical parameter that cartridge is far away with that so low compliance level. Excellent trackers ( 90u-100u ) even for 85u needs over 20cu .

High tracking cartridge abilities is what MUSIC reproduction needs no matter what. Everything is important but flat FR and tracking levels are more important to achieve top quality reproduction levels. in analog, remember: the cartridge is the MUSIC Source.

R.