Start with Upgrade to DAC?


I am ready to set out on an upgrade cycle to my system, which consists of the following, over the next couple of years:

* Rogue Audio RP-7 Preamp (Upgrades: Rogue RP-9 or McIntosh C2800--C2800 includes Phono preamp and DAC)

* Odyssey Kismet Monobloc Amplifiers (Keepers!)

* Lounge Audio LCR Gold phono preamp (Keeper!)

* Fyne Audio F-702 Speakers (Keepers!)

* Definitive Tech Supercube 6000 (Vandersteen Sub Three or Paradigm XR11)

* Schiit Bifrost 2/64 DAC (Schiit Yggydraseil or ????)

* NAD C568 CD Player used as transport (Schiit Urd or ???)

* iFi Zen Stream

*iPad Pro for Apple Music

* Ice Age Audio OFC Power Cords

* Audioquest and mostly Morrow Interconnects (RCA & XLR)

* Performance Audio Speaker Cables, using Mogami W3104 Speaker Wire

  I am thinking that perhaps the best place to start would be the DAC, with the idea of moving from the Bifrost 2/64, which I like, to the Yggdrasil (model TBD) DAC, which has gotten superb reviews that speak to sound quality characteristics that are of concern to me.  Budget for DAC upgrade is about $2500.  OR, should I go for room correction capability?

I recently replaced a highly-rated 100 wpc tube amplifier with the Odyssey mono blocs, and I was stunned by the improvement in sound quality, definition, and imaging, but I think there still is some room for improvement.

Thoughts and recommendations most welcome.

mike4597

 I queried Schiit as to whether I would be able to detect a significant difference between the Bifrost and the Yggdrasil, and their surprising answer was "no." 

This answer maybe different based on who you spoke with at Schitt. I called them a few months ago to discuss the Yiggi+ MIB DAC. The guy I spoke to cursed out the Yggi+ LIM DAC that I owned and told me the Yggi+ OG was much better. I took his advice and got the last OG available (Schitt replaced it with the MIB). 

It took a month of burn-in for me, the same as what Robert Harley reported in TAS a few years ago. However, after that burn-in I could tell that the OG was much different than the LIM. Either could be preferred by people over the other. I love both and have then in 2 separate systems.

I have not heard the Bitfrost but based on my experience I described above I would think the MIB or LIM is much better than the Bitfrost. It would of course depend on the sonic match with your system and how revealing your system was.

I use a used $700 Sonore OpticalRendu streamer, which uses fibre optic cable (glass) just before it goes into a USB conversion and into the DAC. Not as pure a fibre solution as the Lumin X1 (owned it before) but close in execution.

Only issue with the Yggi+ DACs is that it sometimes shuts down for 1/2 second between songs on a ROON stream. That is if the next song is a bit slow to play. Irritating at first but the sound of the Yggi+ is so good that I do not care. Saved me $20k by eliminating my desire to buy the Playback Designs DAC.

 

 

CUSTOMER: I came here for a good argument.
MR. BARNARD: No you didn’t. You came here for an argument.
CUSTOMER: Well an argument’s not the same as contradiction.
MR. BARNARD: Can be

___________

If we can move back to the original questions about what might be suggested as the next area for upgrade of the poster's listed system, that would be enjoyable. I am new to streamers as of 2-3 years, having started with the humble Bluesound Node, third generation. Purchased new, still in play.

I was also stunned by having access to all the music available from streaming.

My best guess in looking at your system would be to get a dac that you might stick with for a while. The 2/64 got decent reviews, as did the Bifrost 2 before it. I liked my Bifrost 2 at the time, but the Holo bettered it. There are good choices if you choose to upgrade here. I am unable to say whether a dac or a streamer would make the most difference.

I've heard an Innuous setup briefly at a neighbor's house. It was very detailed. I have to return the book I borrowed, so that I might listen again. The speakers were two days out of the box and lovely.

https://www.audiogon.com/systems/users/cosmic_charlie

This is supposed to be fun, remember.

@zarf I think the best bang for your buck streamer, especially if you use ROON, is the Sonore OpticalRendu. I have owned about 5 or 6 of them. I sold a few to friends and setup their streaming. I currently have 2 of them with both the audiophile power supply and the much cheaper power supply from Sonore. Go for the cheaper power supply.

Since I owned the Lumin X1 I would also highly recommend the following Lumin streamer based on the X1, but this one has no DAC.

LUMIN U2 (luminmusic.com)

That and the Yggi+ OG maybe a future setup for me. It sounds different than the Sonore OpticalRendu. I call the Lumin a wild child streamer vs the refined sounding Sonore opticalRendu.

Another streamer that would be perfect if it had fibre optical, but maybe great nevertheless, could be the

ARIES S1 - AURALIC

I say potentially great because my now sold Playback Designs STREAM-IF was great using SPDIF output from an Ethernet input. The Aries S1 also takes in Ethernet unlike the Lumin and Sonore, which take in fibre.

I tended to stay away from Ethernet streaming but the Playback Designs steamer was so good using Ethernet.

BTW - I should add that the digital Leedh volume control on the Lumin is almost as good as the great volume control on the Benchmark LA4 preamp. I compared the 2 side-by-side. The difference is really a non-factor for almost everyone. Normally digital volume controls are really subpar compared to an analog preamp, especially the LA4.

As for the streaming service, I like convenience, so between Tidal and Qobuz, is one more convenient to use than the other?

I used to be very anti Tidal due to their higher pricing and absurd MQA requirement for hi res, but both of those things have changed so music selection may now be the biggest differentiator between the two. I will say as a Qobuz user I find their search function subpar. It works, but often I search for things I know are there and they still don’t come up — very frustrating. I’ve since learned how to work with it, but it’s an unnecessary weakness that Qobuz frustratingly seems unwilling to improve. It’s not a huge deal and overall I’m very happy with Qobuz, but I mention it because you’re asking about convenience and this is one area — along with playlists if those are important to you — that you might want to pay attention to as you compare the two.

I totally respect your rationale for wanting to avoid PRC products, and I think you’re on the right track with the Zen Mk3 especially if easily ripping CDs is important, and you’re also getting their excellent Sense app and customer service that are very significant pluses. And of course sound quality is among the best in your price range. Hope this helps, and best of luck. If you do get the Innuos I’d be very interested in your thoughts as I’ve also got a Zen Stream and am also strongly considering the Zen Mk3 as an upgrade.