Separates vs Integrated

I’ve encountered integrateds that outperform many separates combos, but also the inverse. 
 

All else being equal, separates tend to be better. For example, Parasound separates outperform the Parasound integrated, as they should given the cost difference. 
 

OTOH, an integrated like the Gryphon Diablo, and to a lesser extent (I dare to say) my Yamaha A-S2100, can outperform quite a few separates systems. For example, my $1600 (used market price) Yamaha sounds better than many separates systems I’ve compiled that mated tube preamps to solid state amps, such as the Allnic L-1500 with a Benchmark AHB2 amp ($8500 combined retail) but the Benchmark LA4 preamp mated to the AHB2 amp is better than the Yamaha in a few regards. I’m pretty certain I would trade any of my current separates/integrateds for a Gryphon Diablo 300, however, even pre-owned Diablos sell for many times the price of my Yamaha. The performance delta is not worth it to me currently. What’s most amusing to me is that the Yamaha’s preamp section better creates all the normally sought tube sonics (lushness, decay, midrange, dimensionality) than any tube-based unit I’ve owned/tried regardless of price, all while being quieter and more resolving. 

I had a similar experience as @yyzsantabarbara and @zlone regarding a Coda preamp. I much preferred the dead-silent Benchmark LA4. It’s bizarre that Coda manufactures some very quiet power amps but then compromises the noise floor with their preamp designs. Baffling. They need a new preamp designer, maybe one from Guangzhou, China. 😂 

If you can do with a simple pre with only 2 inputs and outputs, the Topping A70 Pro preamp/HP amp is stupidly good and not just for its price. To my knowledge, it also happens to be the quietest, lowest distortion preamp in existence from an objective standpoint. 

My only noteworthy experience with Hegel is with their H190 integrated. It produced a very smooth but rather blunted sound. It was mostly underwhelming relative to other integrateds I’ve owned at its price point. If anything it performed better as a preamp/DAC than as a full integrated. One thing for certain is that its claimed noise spec is absolute horse manure. Bench tests I’ve seen for their products confirm that their specs are grossly exaggerated, and their feed-forward distortion/noise reduction “tech” is essentially ineffective. 

It’s certainly an interesting question.  

Would a $30,000 integrated sound better than a $1,000 amp and a $1,000 preamp.   Well I hope so and it better.

Would a $10,000 integrated sound better than a $5,000 amp and a $5,000 preamp?  Maybe.  I’m sure there are some nice integrated amps at that price point.  
 

The other issue with separates is compatibility.  Will they work well with each other?   Hopefully but you never know.   With an integrated you shouldn’t have that issue.

Would a $30,000 integrated sound better than a $1,000 amp and a $1,000 preamp. Well I hope so and it better.

Would a $10,000 integrated sound better than a $5,000 amp and a $5,000 preamp? Maybe. I’m sure there are some nice integrated amps at that price point.

That would be the logical conclusion since you do generally get what you pay for with consumer products.

For whatever reason though, over the long haul, I’ve found that rule of thumb doesn’t really apply to “audiophile” stereo components. It mostly does with speakers, but with ancillaries, it’s largely a crapshoot. For example, the Topping Pre90 and A70 Pro preamps. Both retail for about $500, and both outperformed the $5500 McIntosh C49 in my system, by a rather wide margin. Both are/were better sounding than the Mac by every metric. I’ve had similar experiences with DACs, integrateds and amps. For another example, I had a Yamaha A-S500 integrated (bought on closeout for $250) that mostly embarrassed the $3000 Rogue Pharaoh. I could cite at least half a dozen more examples where the “Chi-Fi” or mass market underdog handily defeated a comparatively boutique brand.

Unfortunately, similar to the world of remodeling contractors, there seem to be a large number of hifi companies that fail to back up their talk. Seems many rely on a listener’s confirmation bias to make the sale.

A DIY Built Pre Amp at a cost of approx' £300  was the Pre-Amp chosen by an individual with a very expensive system.

At the time of trying out Pre Amp's, Branded Commercial designs had been used in the system up to £5K in value.

This same Pre Amp is still in use today about 3-4 Years on. The only change being very recently it has been co-joined in use by another DIY design for a Pre-Amp to increase the options on an end sound the system can produce. The total costs on Pre Amps at present is up to about £800 

@mm1tt77 I recommend you demo a few integrated amps in your system if you can find a dealer that will let you bring the gear home.  I demoed a pair of mono block amps and an integrated amp at two separate dealers and they didn’t sound to my liking at the dealers.  I asked to bring them home and was shocked at how good they sounded at home.  My buddy demoed the integrated at the dealer with me and he said it sounded so terrible to him that he wouldn’t have asked to bring it home because he didn’t feel it would improve that much at home.  The dealer and I have the same exact speakers used for the demo, but different streamers, DAC, cables and the room of course.  Well, my buddy came over to my house to demo the same integrated in question and really liked it.  He said he couldn’t believe it was the same unit we demoed at the store.  That long story is simple, get the gear in your setup and hear it for yourself.  The debate about separates being superior to integrateds and vice-versa is not something I recommend you get caught up in.  How does either one of the choices sound in your space is the key.  I’ve gone back in forth with separates and integrateds, so I like both. BUT, there is no better experience than trying it for yourself.  Yes, it can be tedious and difficult to get your hands on these products for in-home demos, but that’s the way to go.

I wanted to go back to an integrated after my experience with my Luxman L-509x that I sold.  I regret selling the Luxman and it’s a long story as to why I sold it, but there was absolutely nothing wrong with the Luxman!  

What I did, most recently, was narrow down all the integrateds that I was interested in.  I had (3) integrateds of interest and the Luxman was 1 of 3 and I knew what it sounded like because I owned it, but they do have the new L-509z that’s supposed to be better.

1. D’Agostino Progression Integrated 

2. Gryphon Diablo 333 Integrated

3. Luxman L-509z Integrated

I got the D’Agostino Progression for an in-home demo and I was DONE!  I bought it used from the dealer with a warranty.  This unit definitely had enough power and the creepy crawly details, but the sweetness I was after.  I’ve had super detailed gear before, but after listening to a considerable amount of my music library, my ears would tighten at times with jazz ride cymbals and some jazz with trumpets, etc.  Not so with the DAG!

Depending on the manufacturer, a well designed integrated will be hard to beat without spending a lot of money on separates.

Lastly, room acoustic treatments was a priority for me after so many years without using them.  I have a lot of GIK treatments, but recently bought tube traps and wall panels from Acoustic Sciences Corp. (ASC).  I plan to use them in my dedicated listening room upon completion in about 60 days.

Good luck!