The Shure V15 V with a Jico SAS/B stylus VS The Soundsmith Hyperion MR and Lyra Atlas SL


On a sentimental lark I purchased two Shure V15 V bodies and one SAS/B stylus. I was always a realistic about the Shure's potential. Was comparing it to $10k+ cartridges fair? Absolutely. The Shure was considered to be one of the best cartridges of the day. Why not compare it to a few of the best we have today?

The Shure has always been considered to be unfailingly neutral. Famous recording engineers have said it sounded most like their master tapes. I do not have an original stylus for the Shure and I can not say that the Jico performs as well. 

My initial evaluation was quite positive. It worked wonderfully well in the Shroder CB. With a light mounting plate and small counterbalance weight a resonance point of 8 hz was easily achieved. There was nothing blatantly wrong with the sound. There was no mistracking at 1.2 grams. You can see pictures of all these styluses here https://imgur.com/gallery/stylus-photomicrographs-51n5VF9 

After listening to a bunch of favorite evaluation records my impression was that the Shure sounded on the thin side, lacking in the utmost dynamic impact with just a touch of harshness. I listened to the Shure only for four weeks as my MC phono stage had taken a trip back to the factory. I was using the MM phono stage in the DEQX Pre 8, designed by Dynavector. I have used it with a step up transformer and know it performs well. I got my MC stage back last week and cycled through my other cartridges then back to the Shure. The Soundsmith and Lyra are much more alike than different. I could easily not be able to tell which one was playing. The Lyra is the slightest touch darker. The Shure is a great value....for $480 in today's money, but it can not hold a candle to the other cartridges. They are more dynamic, smoother and quieter. They are more like my high resolution digital files. Whether or not they are $10,000 better is a personal issue. Did the DEQX's phono stage contribute to this lopsided result? Only to a small degree if any. I do have two Shure bodies and they both sound exactly the same. The Shure may have done better with a stock stylus. I do not think the age of the bodies contributes to this result at all. 

128x128mijostyn

Dear @dover : look what is garbage is what you posted and that you did not read slowly through my posts where I said: " those numbers shows electrically FR.." and " Electrically this is the FR response loaded at 22K... "

 

In those reviews what you look is not the electrical real FR of the cartridges but what through a not even D2D recordings by JVC and CBS showed and where the reviewers used different tonearm/TTs, yes all those has all de " defects " off those old time about the LP recording tests and what you listened with out the cartridge Dynamic Stabilizer is not what the reviewers did it.

 

Other thing that you did not read it is:

" Please bear in mind that the calculator is based on an electrical model only. It cannot make any any assumptions about about what is happening on a mechanical level. Resonances of the cantilever, which can contribute to the frequency response and sound of a phono cartridge, and other mechanical effects are not taken into account. "

What @lewm , me an hundred of audiophiles are enjoying today with all those vintage cartridges are doing ( loading at 100khz. ) through almost today top tonearms/TT or top vintage ones along many oher system improved characteristics over the reviewers or even/maybe you in those old times.

Those gentlemans and lew/me know exactly what we are talking today and we are doing in each one home system, you can be sure that your " ears " are not way better than us and you can be sure too that my thousands of first hand experiences about could even you experiences.

 

" 100k will generate a large high frequency peak.... ", electrically not really because it shows around 1+db at around 10khz, 2+db at 18khz and only 3+db at 20khz going down fast at 25khz and you know what? that " peak " contributes to to in some ways compensate for the filter used at 50khz ( around it. Neumann pole. ) during the recording LP sessions to help/impede the cutting head goes burn-in.

And those 2+/3+db are numbers that goes perfectly with what ( very long time ago research with Ortofon Golden Ears panel found out. ) Ortofon did and does where the MC Diamond or Verissimo has a 2+db down there and this deviation is make on purpose by Ortofon. Period.

 

R.

 

Also, the idea of loading at 100K ohms vs 47K ohms should not be considered in isolation from the load capacitance, which is what I was getting at when I mentioned that 47K ohms with ~200pF and 100K ohms with ~100pF give about the same RC constant. Or in the case of the Grace where Grace recommended 400pF with 47K ohms, 200pF with 100K ohms (about where I am for R and C) is equivalent, at least mathematically in the equation for resonant frequency. I think 99% of manufacturers will recommend 47K ohms for R, because 99% of MM phono stages come equipped with a 47K ohm load resistance, and why send the customer into a tailspin by recommending some other resistive load?

look what is garbage is what you posted and that you did not read slowly through my posts where I said: " those numbers shows electrically FR.." and " Electrically this is the FR response loaded at 22K... "

@rauliruegas 

I actually did read your post carefully, and the electrical parameters and assumptions that you used in your calculations are wrong.

Mijo, don’t forget to add in the input capacitance of your phono stage. In proportion to their gain factor all phono stages present a capacitance, both tube and solid state types, especially those with op amp input stages.