Which subwoofer should I get?


Hi - I have the following system:

Magico A5 speakers

Gryphon Diablo 300 integrated

Merging Nadac + Player + Power DAC

Purist Audio cabling

I love my system......but I had the opportunity to use an SVS PB-2000 pro (home theater subwoofer) for a few weeks, and it really improved the overall experience.

I have the opportunity to purchase a REL Carbon Special sub (used) or purchase an SVS SB 3000 Pro. I really like the fact that the SVS subs have so many user adjustable features, and can be adjusted on the fly from an app. I've been told over and over that the sonic qualities of the REL far outweigh the advantages of the SVS subs. Would love to hear from you regarding this issue.

So, in brief, should I go for the REL, the SVS, or some other sub (if so, why?)?

Thanks - Matt

mwsl

 

Brian Ding---designer/owner of Rythmik Audio---recommends low level hookups over high level, but offers a couple of plate amps which include high level binding posts for those who want it.

I know the argument regarding feeding your main speakers and subs the same signal (from your power amp), but I consider that argument flawed. If the power amp were "perfect" (a straight wire with gain), there would be no difference between the output of your pre amp and your power amp (except in gain, watts, voltage, current, etc.). Assuming for the sake of argument that no power amp is perfect, the high level argument is therefore to add the same distortion (from the power amp) to the sub as your main speakers receive.

Let’s use a tube amp as our case study. Tube amps have long been considered slightly inferior to solid state when it comes to the reproduction of low frequencies (the Atma-Sphere OTL amps being one notable exception. A lot of the problems in tube amps when it comes to bass is the sound of output transformers, which OTL’s and most solid state amps are free of).

So with a high level hook up, you are adding the worst aspect of a tube amp to the one frequency band subs are made to reproduce: low frequencies. As the amp (presumably, and hopefully) does not suffer from that ailment in mid and high frequencies, your subs may very well be receiving a signal more different from what the speakers receive than if you were using low level connections.

At any rate, with a plate offering both high and low hookups, you are free to try both, and use the one you prefer. Rythmik Audio offers a few different amps that include both high and low level hookups. And all the Rythmik amps include a very valuable control: a continuously-variable 0-180 degree phase control, for time aligning your sub(s) and speakers. Most subs offer instead a simple 0/180 degree switch, which is of very limited value. A continuously-variable phase control allows you to find the best location in the room for the sub (in terms of bass nodes), and to then use the phase control to electronically "move" the sub (in the time domain. Rythmik labels the control Phase/Delay. Delay only, as it is obviously impossible to move the sub ahead in time.smiley) so as to be in phase with your speakers.

 

I have two RELs connected via high level and they are outstanding.  Super easy to integrate without the use of an app, just your own ears and maybe some measurements using something like REW.  The measurement step isn’t strictly necessary I just wanted to know.  REL has plenty of videos you can watch to help you sort it out.

To all: once I again, I really appreciate all the input. 

@ Rick_N: helpful to know your experience with the SVS SB subs. 

@ gkelly & jastralfu - good to know the REL's are easy to set up.

Another question for everyone: on the REL speaker matching page, they are recommending two T/5x's as optimal for my setup. BUT.....their speaker matching page does NOT have the A5's  as an option, (I chose the S3's as closest match) and they do not have a choice for audio only. Given that the T/5x's are only rated -6dB at 32 Hz, I wonder if this is enough low end given my speakers and room? On the other hand, I'm a little concerned that a pair of Carbon Specials may be overkill for my situation (and a lot more expensive). Thoughts about this given my room size and need for music only? Is there a REL speaker that you think would be the sweet spot for my room and system?

FWIW, I listen to: acoustic and electric jazz, rock & pop of all eras, and all types of classical music. Oh yeah, occasionally, modern country and bluegrass. 

Hello @mwsl , I demoed both and bought the REL Carbon Specials.  I have a pair of Carbon Specials in one system and a pair of Carbon Limiteds in another.  One pair I run wirelessly with REL wireless system which allowed me to experiment with placement.  Despite some saying their controls are limiting, I am able to dial them in to where they literally disappear, yet add bottom end, air pressure, enhance soundstage and generally improve things.  My speakers are fairly full range (Vivid Giya G2.2s) yet my system clearly sounds better with the subs.  Once dialed in, you completely forget about adjusting them and just listen to the music.  Better than another remote control I think.  People often think my amps are my subs...and then ask where the subs are.

I have two REL S/812s in my system.  I like them very much.  My one complaint would be the lack of an app or more specifically, a remote control.  I find it impossible to tune the subs into the system as one size does NOT fit all.  Sure they are fine for the majority of the music I play, but I'm constantly finding way too much bass when a recording has piled it on.  A good example is Herbie Hancock's Dis Is Da Drum. The subs would dance across the floor if I didn't jump up and turn them down.  Would a remote have been that hard to incorporate, given the price of these units?  Cheers.