Bidat vs Perfect Wave vs Weiss and others


This is thread I started a while ago and promised in February i would start doing some real world comparative testing using the Bidat (Plus Mod) as the ref. The units under test are to include in no specific order the MSB Platinum Dac, the Weiss Minervera and the Playback Design player. I posted this under the follow-up of the original thread and it is there is you do a search under Digital for "ps audio perfect". I can't understand why it did not 'promote' to the top of the digital section as it did in the past whenever there was a new contribution, so I have started a new related thread with the first entry of my fun (and I hope edifying comparative experiences).
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Ok, I just got a broken in Weiss Minerva (several hundred hours at least). It has been in my system burning in for about 18 hours (18 hours since arriving in my home, time to come to thermal equilibrium). I have done some comparative listening to the Museatex Dcc-1 (a rarely known digital preamp 19 bit dual differential type) using glass Tos on both and then glass on the DCC1 vs a very expensive (can't name it yet as the manufacturer has not released it...sorry :( ) Firewire on the Weiss. I have a Mac Mini (2007 model) 2.0 ghz Core2Duo with 4Gig of ram running Leopard (although this model can only see 3.01 gig of that (I used 4gig as the memory transfer is optimized when the mem modules are the same). I also have a 1TB NAS (all over wifi). I am of course going to reserve final judement until a bit later.

I will be comparing the Museatex Bidat with the Plus Mod later this weekend. As a teaser, I will go on record and say that honestly at this point I don't agree with the stellar reviews concerning the Weiss Minerva.

It is resolute, almost technicolor but just to give you a short glimpse of what I am hearing, I could imagine a well healed vinyl person listening to Holly Cole on vinyl and then listening to the Weiss (playing the same in CD format) and saying "this is why I will never leave vinyl". Now that may sound harsh, but this is a hobby and I don't have a dog in the race, I am just reporting my ears findings.

I listened to a few high resolution files 176.4/24 and 96/24 but what I heard was a really clear highly resolved soul-less rendition of the music. It never ever made me smile or relax into the music the way the DCC-1/Bidat or even my former (when I actually spun cd's...wow time flies) stellar Dynavox Dynastation 2 (the finest CD player I have ever heard).

In a nutshell (at this point) it just sounds like digital and that aint good in my camp because I am not forgetting about the gear and just listening to the music. I don't like syrupy or dark, I have heard plenty of players try to use that trick to sound musical. No, I look for something that is more elusive and few their be that find that magical combination when forging through the nether regions of the digital domain. I will continue listening to see if the Weiss surprises me :)

More to come...
audiofun
Audiofun, as I implied, my experiences are entirely contrary. I still maintain that minor system differences make a world of difference and tastes certainly differ. I have never heard the realism I hear with the Mac/Amarra/Firewire/Minerva. I am not interested in something that sounds musical, my goal is realism. Oh, I have no tubes in my system at present. I don't think I have ever even seen a Bidat.
Tbg: I want to clarify and agree that system changes can obviously make a difference in the sound of a product. What I meant to convey was that all items used in the comparison were identical....PC's/ interconnect /digital cables...etc, thus the only variable was the DAC itself :) Working with a very neutral sounding system and with ONE variable being interchanged I was very clearly able to determine what the dacs were doing.

When I go and listen to Patricia Barber or Keb Mo...etc, live (at a venue) it does in fact sound musical to me. So I do in fact equate realism with musicality. I have been in the hobby since 1997 (this sickness was imparted to me by my uncle) and I can tell you, if it aint musical I aint listening :)

Regards
I have never understood audiophiles claiming not to listen for musicality but rather realism...I have always been of the school of thought that music should sound musical (hence real)... Anything else sounds like an oxymoron (or a lot of bad noise), at least to me.

If live events didn't move me emotionally (something I ABSOLUTELY equate with musicality) I would never go to another live event.

I think we both agree that different people listen for different things. To my ears the Minerva is HiFi-ish to the nth degree and this is why it is a great thing for all of us that we have sooooooo many choices.
Some claim that all we can hope for in music reproduction is musicality. They don't mean realism, but merely that it is entertaining. This certainly is not my goal. In my 45 years as an audiophile, I have often thought that I was 95% of the way toward realism, only to have a major improvement of twice as good as it was.

Now I think of something that a professional once told me. You can always tell whether a piano heard through a wall is live or a reproduction. When you cannot, that would be a realistic system. Outside my room with the Mac/Minerva etc. I am getting very close on some well recorded albums. The best recording that I use right now is Willie Nelson and Wynton Marsalis, Two Men with the Blues.
As I stated, for me musicality is realism (rarely do I concern myself with what others claim regarding musicality and what is capable in the area of reproduced music).

Since I have owned Tube Research Labs gear (amps/preamp).., Bidat...etc. I have not been able to claim anything as being nearly twice as good. I knew when I was getting to the top and I have not had a revelatory minute in digital repro or amps in over 10 years. I have heard different but it is my experience that if a amp can match or come close to TRL or a dac can match or come close to a Bidat you are indeed in rarefied territory. The AMR 77 is in the a upper echelon of the best digital I have been exposed to. I can't wait to hear the MSB and Musical Playback gear :)

I also have walked into a room on multiple occasions as have others I am acquainted with thinking we were going to find a live ensemble only to find a very musical and realistic system converting the sinusoidal signals :)

I would however be interested in where you heard an AMR 777 and what the ancillary gear was. The disparity between the 777 and the Minerva was so great I was truly perplexed at your assessment of the 777.