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Bidat vs Perfect Wave vs Weiss and others

This is thread I started a while ago and promised in February i would start doing some real world comparative testing using the Bidat (Plus Mod) as the ref. The units under test are to include in no specific order the MSB Platinum Dac, the Weiss Minervera and the Playback Design player. I posted this under the follow-up of the original thread and it is there is you do a search under Digital for "ps audio perfect". I can't understand why it did not 'promote' to the top of the digital section as it did in the past whenever there was a new contribution, so I have started a new related thread with the first entry of my fun (and I hope edifying comparative experiences).
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Ok, I just got a broken in Weiss Minerva (several hundred hours at least). It has been in my system burning in for about 18 hours (18 hours since arriving in my home, time to come to thermal equilibrium). I have done some comparative listening to the Museatex Dcc-1 (a rarely known digital preamp 19 bit dual differential type) using glass Tos on both and then glass on the DCC1 vs a very expensive (can't name it yet as the manufacturer has not released it...sorry :( ) Firewire on the Weiss. I have a Mac Mini (2007 model) 2.0 ghz Core2Duo with 4Gig of ram running Leopard (although this model can only see 3.01 gig of that (I used 4gig as the memory transfer is optimized when the mem modules are the same). I also have a 1TB NAS (all over wifi). I am of course going to reserve final judement until a bit later.

I will be comparing the Museatex Bidat with the Plus Mod later this weekend. As a teaser, I will go on record and say that honestly at this point I don't agree with the stellar reviews concerning the Weiss Minerva.

It is resolute, almost technicolor but just to give you a short glimpse of what I am hearing, I could imagine a well healed vinyl person listening to Holly Cole on vinyl and then listening to the Weiss (playing the same in CD format) and saying "this is why I will never leave vinyl". Now that may sound harsh, but this is a hobby and I don't have a dog in the race, I am just reporting my ears findings.

I listened to a few high resolution files 176.4/24 and 96/24 but what I heard was a really clear highly resolved soul-less rendition of the music. It never ever made me smile or relax into the music the way the DCC-1/Bidat or even my former (when I actually spun cd's...wow time flies) stellar Dynavox Dynastation 2 (the finest CD player I have ever heard).

In a nutshell (at this point) it just sounds like digital and that aint good in my camp because I am not forgetting about the gear and just listening to the music. I don't like syrupy or dark, I have heard plenty of players try to use that trick to sound musical. No, I look for something that is more elusive and few their be that find that magical combination when forging through the nether regions of the digital domain. I will continue listening to see if the Weiss surprises me :)

More to come...
audiofun
tbg
5,263 posts
 
Some claim that all we can hope for in music reproduction is musicality. They don't mean realism, but merely that it is entertaining. This certainly is not my goal. In my 45 years as an audiophile, I have often thought that I was 95% of the way toward realism, only to have a major improvement of twice as good as it was.

Now I think of something that a professional once told me. You can always tell whether a piano heard through a wall is live or a reproduction. When you cannot, that would be a realistic system. Outside my room with the Mac/Minerva etc. I am getting very close on some well recorded albums. The best recording that I use right now is Willie Nelson and Wynton Marsalis, Two Men with the Blues.
audiofun OP
799 posts
 
As I stated, for me musicality is realism (rarely do I concern myself with what others claim regarding musicality and what is capable in the area of reproduced music).

Since I have owned Tube Research Labs gear (amps/preamp).., Bidat...etc. I have not been able to claim anything as being nearly twice as good. I knew when I was getting to the top and I have not had a revelatory minute in digital repro or amps in over 10 years. I have heard different but it is my experience that if a amp can match or come close to TRL or a dac can match or come close to a Bidat you are indeed in rarefied territory. The AMR 77 is in the a upper echelon of the best digital I have been exposed to. I can't wait to hear the MSB and Musical Playback gear :)

I also have walked into a room on multiple occasions as have others I am acquainted with thinking we were going to find a live ensemble only to find a very musical and realistic system converting the sinusoidal signals :)

I would however be interested in where you heard an AMR 777 and what the ancillary gear was. The disparity between the 777 and the Minerva was so great I was truly perplexed at your assessment of the 777.
tbg
5,263 posts
 
All that I can say is enjoy yourself. I agree that the disparity between the Minerva and the AMR is great, in the Minerva's favor.

Anyone who says that you walked in a room thinking there was a live group perplex the hell out of me. I know no one who has ever had that experience.
audiofun OP
799 posts
 
Im glad you like the Weiss, mine is going back in the morning.

Still wondering where you heard the 777 and with what equipment.

Far as walking in a room and having it sound live...I have even read so called golden eared magazine reviewers claim to have thought a quartet was playing at a show only to find gear making the music. Granted this was a while ago and no, I could not for the life of me recall the magazine article, but the fact is I have been fortunate enough to hear systems that good. I believe you when you say you're perplexed by this.
tbg
5,263 posts
 
You should have gotten a good deal on the Minerva as it is replaced by their Dac 202. I heard a prototype at CES versus the Minerva and heard some improvements. We will see whether that holds in my system.

I have often heard people say that they can hardly distinguish their reproduced music from live. As I said, at one time I thought I was close only to realize how far away from real I was when I got a better amp or speakers. I may still be quite distant despite being so impressed with the Mac/Amarra/Firewire/Minerva's realism, but realism is still what thrills me.
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