@audphile1 , you have some really nice gear and I appreciate your advise. I’m budget limited and am curious about a $5k limit and a $10k limit, used ok. Also I’ve never owned tube amps this powerful. I do a lot of looking on line , but lack anywhere to listen. An audio show is much needed. Having Zu with my low power gear leads me to be curious about Klipsch Cornwall IV’s, or Volti. But in another direction maybe something tall like Focal or Legacy. Vandersteen is nearby but I’m not sure if they’re open to the public. I guess I’m like the guy that goes to the gun shop and when asked “ What do I want “, I respond by saying “ Not sure what do I need “. So I’m all ears. Respectfully, Mike B.
Looking for advise regarding Rogue M180’s
Last week a friend gifted me a pair of Rogue M180’s. They were sold as 180’s and I received them from the original owner. Im guessing them to be 10-12 years old. They were used when first purchased for about 5 years sparingly. Since then they have resided on a flat dolly in a spare bedroom. The amps still have the original Phillips ECG 5751 and 5814A’s installed. The original EH KT 90’s are loose in a box with an octet of low hour Gold Lion KT-77’s . Years back when in use the owner contacted Rogue and stated they were too powerful for his room size and speaker selection. Rogue responded by recommending the GL KT77’s and suggesting that he could also lower the bias from 40ma to 30ma. I was provided the supporting emails dated September 2019. Here is my situation followed by my questions. I currently have a low power single ended system with Zu speakers. Second, the owner stated one might have a hum, but was not sure. He’s on his second complete system since and has a room full of gear he’s lost interest in and his memory is vague. Also back then he had power issues with his provider and stated they installed a new transformer on the street. So my questions are first, checking for any hum. My intent is to take a single amp and connect one JBL 4312 to it. Install the KT77’s, plug it in and listen for a hum and bias the tubes. Do I need the input open or shorted ? Or something else ? Second, the 12AX7’s being replaced by the 5751. I see there’s a mu of 70 Vs 100 with the 12AX7. Does that effect the overall output power of the amp or just change tone and distortion? FWIT I have 6-7 pairs of NOS Telefunken 12AU7’s but zero 12AX7’s. My intent is to check for hum without causing any damage. If a hum exists, I’ll ship to Rogue. In the short term if I’m successful, I’ll test drive with my existing Rogue RP-1, the JBL 4312A’s that are mint and the 26” Sound Anchor stands I have with them. And I’d like to get some Telefunkens to put in the 12AX7 positions. After that, there’s a pristine Rogue Hera that’s been inspected and re tubed by Rogue that I’ll ask to purchase before I start looking for speakers worthy of the pairing. Also I emailed Rogue for support a week ago and have not received a response. Thanks in advance for any feedback and my apologies for grammatical spaghetti, but I’m limited to an IPhone. Cheers , Mike B.
- ...
- 43 posts total
@buellrider97 I can recommend the Dark upgrade, if it’s anything like the Dark upgrade to my Rogue ST100. Before the upgrade, I thought the amp was ‘almost there;’ after I got it back, I found it WAS there. The difference was subtle, the cost was considerable (30% of purchase price), but I’m happy with it. You might ask what parts were included. I was surprised when I found the upgrade included NOS tubes for the input section. Sounds like you’re having a blast. Good luck with your journey. |
That’s the rub. How much of the Dark improvement was due to the NOS tubes? When I went from original Apollos to Apollo Darks, I transferred over my own NOS tubes, which I like better than Rogue’s NOS selections (Telefunken smooth plate 12AX7 and RCA cleartop 12AU7). The stock JJs are just awful. The stock Electro Harmonix 12A*7 (which Rogue shipped back in the day, before JJs) were too bright, esepcially with stock EH KT90 of that time. Again, the Dark upgrades may well be more relevant for ST100 and M180. But I definitely remember feeling rather "meh" about my Apollo Dark upgrade. I should've stuck with the og's honestly. |
Because of the friendship / gift connection to the M-180 my opinion is send both in and get Dark upgrade. I would budget for HRS ( or equivalent ) Nimbus couplers under the amps upon return. Of course there are fans of microphonic tubes ( snark ) I have significant seat time w Rogue amps North of the M-180 in combination with various Vandersteen speakers - notably Quattro, 5A ( not the Carbon ) and 7. As @mulveling stated, the M-180 seems to be the imo undeserved cap with audiophiles… it shouldn’t be… again my opinion. I am hesitant to recommend any speaker without knowing room dimensions AND your peak SPL required….. |
@mulveling I suspect most of the performance of the Dark upgrade was in the tubes. My high frequencies sounded clearer, and the bass extension seemed just a bit deeper. Again, I was pleased. It could have all been confirmation bias. I ought to swap the old tubes (which Rogue shipped back with the upgrade) back in, for a ‘scientific’ test, possibly together with another better-trained set of ears. |
- 43 posts total