What makes / defines an audiophile ?

Hi Carl - I hoped I would draw you into some dialogue. Thanks, by the way, for explaining what I meant. Perhaps it is the obsessing over details that really defines an audiophile after all. As you suggest, I was musing that maybe non-audiophiles heard better than us and knew not to bother - merely for amusement purposes. On your second point I meant to imply that when we first cross the divide and buy our first serious hi-fi and sit down to really listen, it does not sound at all like the real thing - and it is that which takes us off on the audiophile path. I would not wish to suggest for a moment that anyone really hears better than you, or that your system does not sound like the real thing - except perhaps to get you going.

Yes, I understand your main point, and I apologize for not reiterating it: that once we finally sit down and actually PAY ATTENTION to the sound of the stereo, we realize that "work needs to be done". BUT WHAT MAKES US "WANT" TO ACTUALLY SIT, LISTEN, AND PAY ATTENTION IN THE FIRST PLACE?.....See below..........I cannot tell you how many times I'll have someone over, they'll sit, and listen for 3 seconds, and then start talking. Or the other thing, is they'll ask to hear something specific, and then the MOMENT it starts, they just want to start searching thru the collection for something else to hear...ALL THE WHILE PAYING ZERO ATTENTION TO THE MUSIC THAT IS PLAYING. Basically, it's attention deficit disorder, based on their conditioned repsonse to a learned behavior, whenever music is playing...it seems to me................................However, if you then say that "what defines the audiophile, is ONLY the obsession"...then that doesn't give us enough credit for the CAUSE of the obsession in the first place: to get better sound because of THE LOVE OF MUSIC...we want to get closer to the music, MORESO THAN DO NON-PHILES. For instance, if we are talking the vast majority of young women: how many of them like dance music, and are obsessed with dancing to it, in "clubs", at around 110 dB, and for hours at a time, until they collapse from exhaustion???? And who do they dance like this with? OTHER YOUNG WOMEN....."it is about the music", except maybe unless you're on a small country so far out in the sPacific nOcean, that you feel the need to take up ship building as your "obsession" instead...LOL!! I'm joking, sort of. I welcome this dialogue, Redkiwi.

I guess that's why we have the America's Cup. With such a weak dollar we can't afford the airfares - so we all start boat-building to get out of here - and suddenly we are good at something. You are right, it all starts with something - in our case the love of music, or perhaps the need for music - but I suspect the next step in the logic that gets us actively involved in getting better sound is something to do with the fact that (many) men appear to want to find out how things (mechanical and electrical) work, more than (most) women do. If you could just go and buy one, and then plug it in when you get home, and get good sound, then there might be more women in this pastime. It is lamentable that good sound is not made more accessible to those who have a lesser penchant than you or I to have a play with the equipment, or room, or somesuch.. Your reference to attention deficit disorder is interesting - maybe we have learnt a kind of meditation when we listen to music, which until you have learnt it, is hard for the non-philes to relate to. I read somewhere recently that 30% of Americans surf the net while watching TV. Perhaps that Stereophile article on "The Age Of Distraction" is right. So the girls do that in the US too? Do the blokes (guys in your vernacular) all turn up after 3am when the girls have collapsed with exhaustion there too?

Well, I presume they do, I've not done that. From what I've seen on tv, it seems like they'd want to show up with some soap and wash cloth at that 3 am liason, before they "finish the date", nudge nudge! There's even this island in the Mediterranean Sea where kids these days (mostly female, it looked to me on tv), go to "party all night". They do "euphoria", or somesuch (illegal drugs are encouraged on this island), and then dance for 12 hours straight (with other girls of course), sweat like HORSES, pass out, get up the next night and do it over again...until they run out of money, that is...Of course, some DIE from it, but I guess it's worth it to them to get "MUSICAL SATISFACTION" thru frenzied and never ending "dancing" to the most annoyingly loud "boom-boom-boom music" you'll ever burst your eardrums with! BTW, Redkiwi, I agree with your thoughts on women above, and admire you for having the "lads" to voice it. I did something similar to that "back in the day" this past August, and everyone including the Audiogon staff were collectively "opening an UMBRELLA up my KEESTER", for simply voicing my opinion!!! "We'll close these forums down competely, that's what we'll do...." IT'S ALRIGHT TO HAVE AN OPINION, EXCEPT OF COURSE WHEN IT ISN'T...when it's not "politically correct" (I personally never understood the popularity of those words in that phrase, to evoke that expression, back in the 1990's...seems like Hitler came up with an expression like that, and was well liked by his followers for it). I think the DNC just resurrected it, sometime around Novemeber 1992. But then, I believe they will have no power at all for at least the next 4 years AFTER TOMORROW!!!!

Sadly I think it is in fact New Zealand that holds the cup for politically correct stupidity. I will take your advice and stay away from the woman thing (by the way are you aloud to call them women in the US? - here it is OK still, but never call them girls or ladies, or you're in big trouble). But I am part-Maori and so can get away with poking borax at the racial political correctness thing. The political correctness just ensures the Maori continue to wallow in their victim status, justifies living off the state and committing crimes against others (mainly against other Maoris). For a politician this is great market segmentation, and a great opportunity for would-be Maori leaders to rip-off their people, but noone should kid themselves that we are actually doing anything good for Maoris by ignoring the truth. Whoops, I am well off the topic - may the best man win on Tuesday! Or should that be 'better' man?