2020 update : JC Verdier La Platine


A recent encounter with a JC Verdier dealer as well as a recent Audiogon discussion thread led to the start of this thread. He was in my house updating my La Platine which had been in storage for ten years with thread and oil. While he has high regards for the deck, his newer clients nevertheless prefer a Techdas iii than an 'old' La Platine. Given the proliferation of expensive decks in the past dozen years, La Platine has become very much under-appreciated. 

It's clear to me that the influence of the La Platine is everywhere to be found. Specifically, the magnetic suspension system that was employed 30+ years ago. Even SOTA offers their newer decks with mag. lev. features. And if you read this review: https://www.callas-audio.nl/Callas%20Platine%20Mod%20Kit%20Review.pdf, the Continuum Caliburn uses the same concept, which was not acknowledged in Fremer's review, albeit with more sophisticated , and expensive, execution.

It is also clear to me that there is much misunderstanding of the workings of the La Platine. I for one have contributed to this. The motor of the La Platine, for example, has been much maligned. The thread drive is another aspect of the turntable that have been described as inferior. With regard to the motor and thread drive, I have been set straight by Chris @ct0517 and Lyubomir @lbelchev. Experimenting with the different types of silk threads, the tightness to the platter  and a renewed understanding of the soundness of the Philips motor have been rewarded with better dynamics and transparency. 

The funny thing is that during the past two years of re-engagement with audio, I have questioned ownership of every components in my arsenal except the La Platine. It has always been a keeper. I wonder if La Platine owners would contribute to celebrating this 'old' deck with tales, advice, and insights?

Cheers!
ledoux1238

@ledoux1238 thanks for your words.

i have had some advice from a very experienced la platine user on WBF (@mtemur) and so things may change.  also i am currently ill and this affects my hearing.  it is just  cold so a day or 2 and it will be fine but this could have impacted what i perceived recently.

 

in any case to respond to your queries.

1.  i have removed the footers i was using.  i had CMS speaker footers under it.  it sounded extraordinarily measured with footers.  polite.  formal.  stiff.  no fun.  i accept other footers might be a better choice.  i used the CMS speaker footers because they easily adjust up and down being leveraged.  and they sound great with speakers.  i think their maker wouldn't endorse the way i've used them here.  my sense was that when i first played the la platine as i received it from germany and the previous owner with a fr64s and modified denon 103 cart and no tweaks or oil, that it sounded quite sublime.  i'm not sure anything i've done since then has helped.

2.  viscose thread.  have used waxed floss.  have used a thicker "yarn".  have used my tt3 belt as well.  everything sounds like what it is.  so the tt3 belt which is rubberish and flat and wide made the verdier sound alot like the tt3 to my ears (which as i noted at start may not be at their best), i.e sort of thick and unrelenting like its made of plastic.  viscose thread sounds best late at night (2 am) when the power is clean.  music hangs in the air.  one can hear very much the timing characteristics of different belts.  tight rubber one had great drive with a certain elasticity.  with thread i can hear it slowing down as it plays.  this adds to a certain appeal i think but mainly late at night.  opposite of garrard 401 thunder.  waxed floss was good but seemed to heat and then disintegrate a bit.  less romance with floss (could hear its relatively stiffness).  i think i can hear the viscose thread stretch too.  i do find it needs to be somewhat tight the viscose thread for me to make speed.  the floss on the other hand could be almost falling off.  i want to try silk.  but mtemur recommends transrotor belt.  i have ordered that.  i have also ordered EPDM based belts as per a recommendation by another chap on here.  i have bought the gold note deluxe (EPDM) and epdm o-rings from ebay.  we will see what we get.  mtemur says he has speed variation down to one quarter of what i am achieving (i am 0.2 rpm variation at best).

3.  re: motor i may be using wrong terms as i barely know what i am doing.  i opened motor and snipped tx output and connected my LPS 12V DC output to the wires.  so i still get to change my speed the normal way etc.  this did reduce my speed variation.  the sound is good to me, i think i can hear the improvement. but it is less romantic somehow and i wonder if this isn't the same sort of change i got from footers.  that is, more hifi, but not actually better.  my touchstone is linda ronstadt when i first fired up the la platine.  it shocked me how much resolution i could hear but also how much delicate flesh there was on her voice.

re: turntables right now i am wondering if i should keep either the tt3 or 401.  the tt3 is very set and forget.  the 401 is, like the la platine, a tinkerers paradise.  the 401 is more stable than the tt3.  the tt3 is more engaging and beguiling than the 401.  the 401 is monumental when on song.   but having everything carved out in marble for you can get tedious.

 

 

 

@dover i am starting to wonder if the la platine doesn't lose alot of its "musicality" with a more driving motor.  i haven't attached a garrard 401 motor to it (yet) but with the tt3 belt (tight coupling compared to thread) i heard a propulsive sound and frankly it was like i had perverted the la platine into being something other than what it was meant to be.  but my hearing could just be temporarily shot.

sorry to post again but also i have ordered some precision ceramic 10 mm bearing balls so soon will get to see what that sounds like.  will make a difference as i think my la platine sits relatively heavy.

@mr_gray 

Your hearing is fine. The Verdier has a very relaxed quality to it which can easily be lost with mods. The supplied rubber belt is very poorly made, it is out of round ( cross section ), rough, and in my experience you can see it riding up and down the platter as the platter rotates. A fellow user local also has this problem. The Leonardo rubber belt is better made ( more true ), it's as simple as that.

I used the supplied linen thread which I preferred to the rubber. I would not use cotton ( stretches ) or dental floss ( too waxy ) both of which I have tried on my reference TT and were failures.

On my reference turntable ( 26kg platter ) I use surgical silk. If you use low tension you can chalk it but I don't.

I don't see why you should lose anything with a better motor as long as you run the belt with low tension. However my guess is that the Sota Eclipse motor is closer to the original in drive, just more accurate.

As an aside I sold the Verdier tp a friend who had a SME20 - the Verdier was significantly better than that TT.

 

 

 

I am having some great results with the la platine.  i think it sounds pretty great.  it is a very transparent platform i think.  where i am at is as follows:

- tiny thread being used.  i think this is cotton but not sure.  motor as close as i can get it.  i'm having very good speed stability and i am easily making speed.

- i haven't gone back to footers and i don't think i will.  it's going well on the springs.

- i tried a grade 3 ceramic ball.  it is 10 mm.  turns out the ball i had was 12 mm.  ceramic sounded ceramic.  i've gone back to the steel.

- using very light synthetic oil with the ball in place i measured wow of 0.02% rms and got speed variation down to 0.15 rpm.  it sounds fabulously speed stable.

- in trying the 10 mm dia ball i found my magnets are so weak that the platter sits flush on base.  i have ordered magnets which are very slightly smaller than the existing ones.  i am hoping i can get a little more magnet suspension into the equation

- in running a table that to a significant degree has weight on bearing as i am, i think it sounds that way.  less gossamer and more "plastic".  it honestly sounds alot like the garrard sometimes albeit with alot more music and resolution.

- the table has tonnes of jump/dynamics and bass.  but you do have to potter with it to have it at its best.  my tonearm i am using now is a fr64s.  not having vta adjustment is killing me as each change i make with ball/platter "suspension" implies vta out of whack.  i am sick of getting microscope out.  i do think the platine allows ear adjustment like no other table i have heard.  it is just so pure to what is occurring.  i have ordered a vta adjustment mechanism and can't wait to be able to optimise on the fly so to speak.