05-22-14: Dvavc But of course ripped files are sound inferior compared to it's sourced CD.... Let's do very simple test and compare apples to apples, that you can witness said difference for yourself.... Now, using any software of your choice, lets rip any file(s) from any CD (your choice) to the HDD or SSD of said computer (BTW, SSD do sound better than HDD, but it doesnt matter for this test). When rip is done, insert headphones directly in to the computer audio out jack, on the back of the comp and compare the sound of CD played back from the same CD ROM and ripped file(s), played trough the same computer playback/rip software. Dont use different softs for playing back file(s) and CD, because different softs will sound differently.... If you done everything right, you should easily hear that ripped files have a little bit less of everything i.e. less micro musical nuances, less airiness, different voice tembres, etc., compared to CD. It is similar to Xerox copy, i.e. everything looks the same (the writing is still there :~)) but a little bit less of everything, less clarity, less contrast etc. I wish I knew what causing it and how to fix it, but unfortunately I don't. ((( Seconding and expanding on the point Kijanki made above about ambient electrical noise, playing back a file stored on the computer's hard drive figures to result in differences in electrical noise that is coupled from the computer's digital circuitry and its power supply into the D/A converter circuit on the computer's sound card or motherboard, compared to playback of a CD by that computer. That in turn will result in differences in timing jitter occurring in the D/A conversion process, which I suspect is the main reason for the differences you heard in making the comparison you described. What is being discussed in this thread, however, are differences between playback of a CD in a separate CD transport or player and playback of a computer file via a digital output of the computer (e.g., USB or S/PDIF or Ethernet or Wifi). The effects of noise coupling into the computer's D/A converter circuit has no relevance to those situations. Excellent input from Lewinski, IMO. Regards, -- Al |
Kij - getting a difference between re-written CDROM and a commercially made CD depends on a lot of things:
1) use Mitsui Gold audio master disk 2) clean the disk well using a good treatment before burning 3) use a good reader and CD burner at 1X or 2X speed, such as Plextor or Yamaha - I used one with a Superclock modded into it. 4) Rip with dbpower amp on PC or XLD on Mac with Accurate Rip enabled
If you do all of these, you should definitely hear a big improvement in the copy, unless of course your CD player is CDROM-based and reclocking the data out of memory, like the Parasound and a couple others.
Steve N. Empirical Audio |
To the original post: You can achieve very low jitter using either computer/server playback or transport playback, however IME it is easier and less expensive to achieve the maximum performance using a server.
The main reason is that jitter from the CD transport is generally affected by the pits in the CD. When you rip the CD, the jitter in the pits is unimportant and does not affect the image that results or the server playback. The pits are only important for transport playback.
Once you have a digital image, you can apply low-jitter clocking hardware to it that will result in playback with lower jitter than even the best transports can deliver. The exception is the transport based on a CDROM drive that spools the data to a memory and then it is spooled out of the memory. This is essentially a server type playback.
Also, the playback software and CODECs will affect the playback depending on the lossless compression used. IF none is used, you will get the best result, by using native wav format.
Therefore, the result you will get with server/computer playback depends entirely on the playback software used, the format that you rip to and the playback hardware. The playback hardware can be a USB converter, USB DAC, Ethernet network interface or simply a S/PDIF interfaced from the computers PCI bus. The quality of the interface hardware and the power supply for each of these makes the difference.
Steve N. Empirical Audio |
Audiogoner, Steven Are you in CA? I would love to come to your place that you prove me wrong. No, seriously, i would the happiest guy in the world if you prove that I'm wrong, and i swear i'll post about it. And i'm not even discussing rewritten CD-R. Just prove to me (by audition) that your own CD ROM with source CD won't beat files ripped from it. Deal? |
Dvavc - I'm in central Oregon, but I will be in CA at the Newport Beach show next weekend, Fri, Sat and Sun. My exhibit is in the Hilton room 1001.
"Just prove to me (by audition) that your own CD ROM with source CD won't beat files ripped from it."
I cannot do this at the show because I will not have a CD transport at the show, only an Antipodes server. If you come to Oregon (Bend area), I'll be happy to do this demo. Bring your best CD transport and disk. Just email me.
Virtually all of my customers have given up on CD transports in favor of computer audio because of the improved SQ. Some have even sold their vinyl setups. I have the posts on forums to prove this.
I highly recommend you come to the Newport show anyway. It will be an eye-opener for sure:
http://theshownewport.com/visitors/index.html
Steve N. Empirical Audio |