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Horns and Triodes...?

Buddy of mine is interested in (anguishing over, really) building a system based on a pair of super-efficient horns and a low-powered triode amp. As this stuff tends to run even more towards the esoteric than the regular esoteric fare around these parts ("guy in X building out of his basement/garage...") upping the comfort level prior to taking a leap of faith (let alone actually listening to something first) is turning out to be darn near impossible.

Personally, being that I run Thiels and a huge sucking monster of an amplifier (relatively speaking), I know bubkis about this stuff -- so I throw myself at the mercy of the collective wisdom.

What's worked for folks? Is there anything or anyplace to listen in the NYC area? Tastes are running towards the exceptionally spartan, relatively cheap, diamond in the ruff among the recently-post-home-brew-eque market (if that makes any sense) with a focus on piano more than anything, if it were necessary to choose. Likely to be using a single source, too, so we're really talking no frills. Pointers?
mezmo
twl
3,251 posts
 
Marco, I know a couple of people that have Cain and Cain Abbys and like them. I haven't heard them, but have built some Voigt Pipes with other Fostex drivers.(The Abbys are a Voigt Pipe cabinet). It's hard to beat them for the money, in a single driver speaker. I use Lowther EX3 drivers in the Voigt Pipes now, and I prefer the Lowther, but Lowthers are alot more money than Fostex. And also some people like the sound of the Fostex better. I think it is a worthwhile thing to investigate the Cain and Cain stuff. I built my own cabinets, and got Lowthers in them for the same cost as Abbys with Fostex. Voigt Pipes are an easy build.

I know a member who replaced his Silverline Sonata speakers/Electrocompaniet amp, with a pair of DIY Lowther Voigt Pipes and a Wright 2a3 SET amp, and they killed his previous higher power conventional system. He was shocked. I also know of a few other similar stories, including some Lowthers knocking out a pair of Merlin VSM. These are the newer Lowthers with the new improved design. A whole 'nuther smoke. I really think alot of members would be quite surprised to hear what this kind of setup can really do.
jax2
3,031 posts
 
Thanks Tom- I've been looking into single-driver solutions to appease my wife while still keeping me happy. She refers to my LaScala's as "the twin dishwashers" and would like nothing better then to see them replaced with something taking up less space and with less of a retro look. In my mind they'd be hard to beat with my 300B SET's but I've heard so many good things about the single-drive solutions that I'd like to investigate further. If they can top a Sonata that is some high praise indeed. Is there anyplace online I can look at plans for the Voight Pipe you built..there seems to be many variations on them?

Marco
twl
3,251 posts
 
Yes, Marco you can look here for the plans(in metric, and INSIDE DIMENSIONS).
http://kosat.consultit.no/~ketil/lowther/voigtpip.html

Those are the original Lowther Club of Norway plans, and are the correct ones. Stick with those. The only beneficial mod to make, is to use my "swinging door" mods on the sides of the baffle-board, to extend the width for eliminating baffle-step losses that are common to narrow cabinet designs. Makes the bass much better. They do not ever swing forward of the baffle face, but can be angled backwards to reduce the bass augmentation for certain records. Contact me if you are going to make these.

IMO, these with either Fostex or Lowther, on your 300B will have those "twin dishwashers" permanently in the storage room.

Here's the rationale. Basically, when you remove the crossover from the speaker system, you are then achieving the same result as "active" speakers. You directly control the driver from the amp, with nothing in between. Big difference. Also, the traditional problems with crossovers and driver overlap are eliminated. Another big difference. Especially since the LaScala crosses over right in the middle of the vocal midrange. Third, you will get just as much top end extension(with Lowthers) and the (40Hz)bass will go lower than your LaScala's. Efficiency is very close, with the Lowthers doing about 100db/watt in the Voigt Pipe cabinets. And, there is a certain technical "synergy" between the SET amp and single driver speaker, that is just unmatchable with any other type of speaker on a SET. They are "made for each other", and you won't ever hear your SET better than on a pair of fullrange single-drivers. This is where the "magic" is.

One caveat: Lowthers and other single drivers take a VERY long time to break in. At the start, the bass is poor. They are stiff, and tight tolerances, so you have to start at low volumes, and then increase SPL over the first 30-50 hours. They don't come into their own till after 100-200 hours, and are not fully broken in until after 500 hours. This is very real, and not a "psychological effect".
mezmo OP
516 posts
 
Well, gentlemen, in case anyone is still paying attention to this one, I thought I might offer a touch of resolution. After much consternation and gnashing of teeth, Jim, the friend of mine that started all this, has commissioned an amp from Mr. Korneff and ordered himself a pair of the Cain & Cain Abbeys. The upstream bits from there are still under debate, but considering the Abbeys are snowed in in Colorado and Jeff's amp magic takes time anyway, there's no rush. Thanks again for the pointers.
bemopti123
303 posts
 
If he was daring, he should have tried to build a set of Voigt Pipes with the Fostex 208 Sigmas. I did this succesfully about 2-3 years ago and still have the cabinets left over. The finish was not "pro" but the sound, the sound for about $400 worth of materials was quite simply staggering. You may ask where did I do the woodwork? Got several large pre cutted plywood boards from Homedepot for about less than $50. Then, at home, I did the bulk of the work. Home= 1 bedroom apartment. It took me about 2 days. I had no previous woodworking experience, but the I had been bitten badly by the DIY bug. So, I did it.

Now the Fostex are filling a pair of ZHorn Garudas that I bought from Tom Zuworsky. They sound awesome, especially with my fully battery powered Final Music 5 and 6 preamplifier and amplifiers. The sound is fast, taut, and even without a subwoofer, decently full. To add more PUNCH, I added a powered subwoofer. 10 watts of grainless battery powered glory. No Cairn and Cairn can compete with this.

Another interesting set up is what TWL has. Check his system profile. Strange, it makes me drool when I think about it.

My dream....to either construct a full, with excellent bass extension horn or get a refurbished Klipsch La Belle/Scala, especially with the AKL or ALK updated crossover and some excellent minimalist wires.

That will take me to heaven!

PS: I must be somewhere between Earth and Heaven, maybe Purgatory? hehehe
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