Why does the copy sound better than the original

Al, also wanted to confirm you were using the same player for the comparison, since you just mentioned that the design of the player was a variable. I thought it would be nice if we could eliminate that particular variable.

Geoff

Al, but I thought you used one of those fancy CD-Rs for the copy, one with superior jitter characteristics. See, that's what's so puzzling - why you say the copy sounded worse than the original even though a superior low jitter CD-R was used for the copy and the data streams were bit for bit identical. Do you see I mean? Am I missing something?
12-11-12: Geoffkait

Geoffkait,

Worse? Where did Al use the word worse? You need to brush up on your reading skills.

As for the Taiyo Yuden, made in Japan, CD-R blank disc they are superior to the cheapo CD-R disc with the silver burn side made in the likes of Taiwan.

Al, also wanted to confirm you were using the same player for the comparison, since you just mentioned that the design of the player was a variable.
12-11-12: Geoffkait

Again those reading skills.....

12-09-12: Almarg
I performed the comparison using both my Daedalus Ulysses speakers, with VAC amplification, and my Stax electrostatic headphones. The CDP is a Bryston BCD-1, and the preamp a Classe CP-60. A lot of the circuitry in the preamp is not in the signal path during headphone listening, because the Stax headphone amp connects to its tape outputs.

Geoffkait,

Why the hard-on?

Al took the time to do the experimentation and listen for the differences between the copy and the original.

So what's your problem?
.

12-11-12: Geoffkait
Al, also wanted to confirm you were using the same player for the comparison, since you just mentioned that the design of the player was a variable. I thought it would be nice if we could eliminate that particular variable.

Yes, of course. As I indicated earlier, the CD player was a Bryston BCD-1. No other player was used. Everything else involved in the comparison was absolutely identical throughout the process, also. That includes the rest of the system, as described earlier, the volume setting, and the warmup state of the equipment. Every component in the system that was used had been turned on for upwards of 24 hours, except for the VAC amplifier which was turned on for about 3 hours. I listened to both the originals and the copies several times each, going back and forth between the two. I did that using my Daedalus speakers, and again using my Stax headphones.

Al, but I thought you used one of those fancy CD-Rs for the copy, one with superior jitter characteristics. See, that's what's so puzzling - why you say the copy sounded worse than the original even though a superior low jitter CD-R was used for the copy and the data streams were bit for bit identical. Do you see I mean? Am I missing something?

Yes, I see what you mean, and I too was not anticipating that result. But if the explanations presented or quoted earlier by me, Nsgarch, AudioEngr, Kirkus, and Shadorne are correct, it simply means that this particular player had, putting it in non-technical terms, an "easier" time reading these particular originals than these particular copies, that were produced with my particular drives. The result being less electrical noise coupled into other parts of the player, and less jitter, when the originals were being played.

The Taiyo-Yuden CD-R's are not "fancy," btw. They are conventional CD-R's that seem to be one of the most reliable and highest quality brands. That is based on many anecdotal reports I have seen, and my own experience using them and other brands for non-audio applications.

Jim -- just saw your post, thanks! In fairness, though, while I didn't say that the copies sounded worse, I did say that the originals sounded better, which amounts to the same thing.

Best regards,
-- Al

I used to rewrite CDs for customers and they paid me for this. If one uses a good writer like a Yamaha or Plextor, good media such as Mitsui gold audio master and treats the CDROM disk with a good treatment before writing, the pits will be more uniformly written and better formed, resulting in less jitter when read by a conventional CD transport. The initial rip of the CD must be using a good tool like DBPOWERAMP or XLD on Mac. It is even better if your writer is modified with Superclock etc. and uses battery power. This is what I did.

There are a few transports out there now that are actually computers with CDROM drives reading the disk at high-speed. The SQ of these transports may not be improved when you do all of these thing above.

If you are going to all of this trouble to make CDs sound better, then my advice is just rip the CDs to your hard drive on your computer and play them with the computer. It will be better than any rewritten CDROM disk, assuming you select the right software for ripping and playback and the right hardware for playback.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

As long as we're reviewing the variables involved with the sound of CDs and with maximizing the laser reading operation, it might be the right time to mention the importance of obtaining absolute level of the CD transport.

Now, I know what you're thinking, all I have to do is place a bubble level on top of the CD player or CD transport, right? The problem is that the level of the transport section - thus the level of the CD as it's spinning - is frequently out of level with the top of the chassis, if simply because the tolerances of the unit are not tight enough, but also because some players tilt the CD up a few degrees when it is loaded into the player - for those players the level of the transport is a few degrees different from the level of the top of the chassis.

The best way to obtain absolute level of the transport area - thus the CD while it's spinning - is to remove the top of the chassis and use a small bubble level directly on the transport area or directly on the CD as it sits on the transport. Trying to obtain absolute level of the CD tray when it is in the OUT position is not reliable because the weight of the bubble level can easily change the level of the tray.