$800 Cartridge Shootout and Upgrade Path

Raul,

I'd be glad to comment on the $5K budget. Here is the original post I made:

"Raul

Whether you're correct or others are correct, it feels like you're speaking from an ideal sense, not a practical sense. I see a real life issue I don't think you can solve with your reasoning; I don't think your logic can work for folks woking on a budget up to $5K (and probably a much higher budget). A huge percentage of the folks here are on a budget & are trying to achieve the best possible music from a table, arm, cartridge, preamp, rack, interconnects, cleaining machine, and accessories, within a reasonable budget. It's tough to apply your "logic/argument" in this thread, I wouldn't have a chance do it within my budget."

You gave your responses as:

"Dear Dsiggia:".... see a real life issue I don't think you can solve with your reasoning; I don't think your logic can work for folks working on a budget up to $5K...".

Here are some examples of analog rig ( around $5K ) that you can blend according with what you want to hear:

Cartridges: Van den Hul: MC ONE SPECIAL,
Ortofon....: Kontrapunkt b.
Allaerts...: MC1ECO
Benz Micro.: M2
Clearaudio.: Victory
Lyra.......: Argo
Sumiko.....: Celebration
Transfiguration: Spirit MK3
Dynavector.: D172 MKII.

Tonearms: MOERCH: DP 6 or UP 4 ( both has interchangeable arm wands with different effective mass, so you can blend with any of those cartridges. )

Turntables: Transrotor: Atlantis.
Acoustic Signature: Final Tool.
Avid: Volvere.
Nottinngham: Space.
Roksan: Xerxes.
Thorens: 850 BC.
Wilson benesch: Circle.
Basis: 2001 Signature.
VPI: Scoutmaster.

Any of these combinations beats your analog system for a wide margin ( btw, hands down many of the anolog systems of the persons on this thread. ). Try it.
Regards and always enjoy the music.
Raul."

My response is:
You failed to see the $5K wasn't just the table, arm, cartridge. What happened to the phono preamp, cleaning machine, accessories, etc? It didn't seem worth it at the time to respond - you blew the budget. Enough is enough....

Hi Artar1, at $2400 for the Illustrious have you ruled out a Schroeder Model 2? They are the same price. Just curious.

Shop around for the Illustrious. It can be had much cheaper than $2400.

Hi Guys!

Wow! There’ve been a lot of posts today, and that’s for sure. I am so swamped at work. We decorated our area today for Halloween. Tomorrow I will be coming as a clown. Maybe that’s fitting so long as I don’t make a big fool of myself. So because of the increased workload today, I am writing a shotgun response to everyone.

Rushton,

Thanks for the best wishes. I am very excited about the choices I have made. It’s a little more than I want to spend, but then I won’t have to worry about upgrading later. I think what I have chosen will engage me more in the hobby of analog because I will have a lot more invested. I will say more about this later.

Jphii,

Thanks for the confirmation and the support; it means a lot to me. What I have chosen strikes a good balance, even though I did go over budget. But that has to be a common story for most of us posting here. Somehow the choices I have made for turntable, tonearm, and cartridge feel right to me. I am not so worried that I haven’t heard them in advance. I have listened to good mass-loaded designs not too long ago, and I am sure the combination I have chosen will not disappoint me. Thanks.

Raul,

You mentioned in a previous post that you have heard many turntable/tonearm combinations and that you own many phono cartridges. I would be interested to know how much you have invested in analog. It sounds like a lot, maybe fifty-to-one-hundred-thousand dollars? You mentioned numerous cartridges, turntables, and tonearms. Did I understand you correctly that you actually own all of these items now, or you have simply heard them over the years?

I think in regards to Twl providing an explanation for the notion that the phono cartridge is limited by the quality of the turntable has already been done. I think Twl has already answered that question sufficiently. Are you asking for further elaboration on a subject that has been thoroughly explored?

It’s perfectly okay with me if you consider me to be inexperienced with all things audio. Somehow I am unaffected by that comment. But to label Twl as such, I feel, is an oversight on your part.

>>You have a " long road to home ". Both of you have 30+ years ( at least this is what you told us )of experience in audio and you are ( still ) at a low level of the music reproduction at home: I can't understand why you are not growing up a little faster or maybe you already think are right on target.<<

I am wondering if a language other than English is your primary means of communication, for I am a little puzzled by your tone. I would like to believe that you, as a person, don’t go out of your way to be argumentative with others. Is there any truth to that?

>>Artar1: " you can't go wrong with the 103R ...", this was your advise to Flg2001: sure he can go wrong with that garbage of cartridge.<<

There are many who would disagree with you. You seem to have a very strong opinion here. Are you trying to save us from ourselves?

>>Dear friends: I almost always try to " work " on real facts, my advise to you is that try in the same way: " live experience ".<<

I feel most of the time you are operating from a position buttressed by opinions, which is okay, but I feel a little uncomfortable when you try to claim that you suppositions are, indeed, facts.


Dougdeacon,

Please accept my apologies for teasing you once again. I was speaking “tongue and check” when I was blaming you for my going over budget. I was not at all serious. But then again…

Also thanks for your support; it has helped me a lot in figuring out what I really want in a turntable, tonearm, and cartridge. And I think your prediction about sonic bliss will come true. Happy listening, and thanks again!

Dsiggia,

Thanks for your kind words and support. I appreciate it!

I think you are right about Raul’s position, but the funny thing is that I am not sure what it is. If my memory serves me correctly, I believe Raul maintains that the cartridge is the most important element and should be chosen first, or something to that effect. Hmmmm…

>>Furthermore, you say "four of 20+ persons are really experts on the subject, when I say experts is because they have a high resolution audio system and they have " live experience "<<

Let’s see, if Raul is wealthy, which he might be, then I would like a high-resolution system that would meet his standards. I would be more than happy to provide an address where donations could be made! : > )

Raul,

>>Dsiggia: First I'm not defending my position. If you don't believe or can't understand the " live experience " issue, that's your problem and that's why you " can't learn something ".<<

I feel this to be argumentative and inflammatory. I am curious as to what prompts you to express yourself in this manner?


Letch,

How do you like the Michael Green rack, and how much does it cost? (I am sorry about asking that question.) I don’t have suspended floors, thank goodness. My listening room has a four-inch concrete slab covered by think carpeting. There is no bounce that I am aware of.

I agree with you about not making a hard-and-fast rule about sprung tables in regards to suspended floors. I think you engineering friend might be on to something.

>>1. Table -Teres 255 or 265 or Galibier Quattro ALU
2. Arm - Shroeder DPS
3. Cartridge - Shelter 501 II<<

This looks to be a fine list of components. What about Redpoint? It’s similar to Galibier and looks cool too.

>>Raul - I would not say this is the matter. It is not that Twl and Doug and Artar are "soft and kind", the fact is that they understand that this is a dialogue between people with common interests.<<

I like the emphasis placed on dialog. I try not to deny the experiences of others. These experiences are subjective in nature and are the basis by which we choose audio components.

>> They also understand that there are many relativistic factors here, components, power, rooms, musical tastes and different tastes concerning what kind of sound they want.<<

Right on! I couldn’t have said it better.

>>They are not here to lecture others on right or wrong. They are not concerned with who thinks they're a biggie smarty-pants or an "expert". I find your tone and your dogmatic approach to be more of an authority control thing and while I appreciate the fact that you care about this hobby, I can't take your knowledge seriously when it's presented as the only "truth" or the only "fact".<<

You make a very good point.

>>I am not an audio expert, that I will freely admit. I have been going to concerts for 27 years and have seen thousands of live concerts of all kinds.<<

Wow! That’s a lot. I think that makes you an expert, at least to me.

>>I have been collecting records for 34 years. I have years of experience in record retail and used to be a classical buyer for Tower records. I have only been an audiophile for 8 years. What does all this make me? A person who loves music enough to devote a large part of their existence and most of their finances to it. I am trying to develop a system to play back the music I love and I very much appreciate the help I get on forums to make up for my lack of "audiophile" expertise.<<

It seems to me that you’re on the right track. Yup! No doubt about it! Thanks for posting Chris. You rock too!

Jimbo3,

I don’t think Raul is from Massachusetts.

Dan_ed,

Thanks for your support. As you know, I like your system too. Is it almost finished?

Mab33,

Yes, I will not be getting the Schroeder Model 2, but that does not mean I feel the Illustrious is the only tonearm that should be considered. I will explain more at a later time. I have to return to work; I have a manual I need to finish before I go home.

4yanx,

Thanks for posting, and I got your e-mail! The price I quoted is off the web site that you have suggested. Now maybe the cost is lower, or maybe I am in error. At any rate, it won’t be until next April before I can actually buy my analog front end plus the phono stage. I need to keep saving.

The moral being, don't always accept the price that you read on a website as gospel without proferring a personal call.