The Schroeder has arrived

Hi Doug, Raul ...

I wonder if I am doing a disservice by publishing the mass/compliance chart. I think some explanatory notes should be added and I will do so.

This all goes back to listening being the final arbiter of "goodness". I need to put some sort of advisory on the spreadsheet to the effect that treating the numbers as being an instant recipe for success is just not possible.

The idea was keep people from starting off with completely wacky combinations like a Shure with an SME 3012R. Now, some have reported success with weird combinations, and I'm not saying that it isn't possible If you were a gambling man however, it wouldn't be the smart place to start, unless (through lists like this) you hear reports of special combinations making magik.

If people get out of this that once you "run the numbers", you are done, they will likely be stopping short of the finish line.

As both of you have wisely observed, the numbers are only the beginning of the story. As you have no doubt have experimented, two different combinations resulting in the same res. freq. can result in one combination sounding at or near its best, with the other one sounding ... er ... suboptimal.

The Benzes seem to be one example of it being dangerous to go too low - below 8 or 9 Hz (as observed - not calculated). OTOH, Denons and Dynavectors for example are quite happy down in that range - at least on unsuspended decks.

Cheers,
Thom

Dear Thom: The mass/compliance chart is a great service to all. It is the best advise to start about and I agree with you to " put some sort of advisory ..".

Well done.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

^^^
What Raul said.

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What did Doug say ?
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Hi everyone,
A few additional thoughts on the issue of an "ideal" fres of the arm/cart combo. I second Rauls observation, that even "non-textbook" combinations can give stunning results. It is in the often found case that the table/arm/cart is exited by footfall or other causes, like record excentricity or, quite common, heavy, mass loaded decks, sitting on top of tall racks(doing the Eiffel Tower dance), that the choice of a f.res that is least perceptible to being excited is beneficial.
This doesn't always mean the f.res has to be farthest away from the f.exite. If your f.res is a (2nd,3rd)multiple of f.excite, the alteration of f.res, be it lowering or raising(sometimes by a small amount only), will result in a sound improvement, more so with undamped arms than with damped arms.
This is why I aim at 11Hz. Most suspended tables have a f.suspension no higher than 4,5Hz, so you should be safe at anything higher than f.res=9Hz. Your suspension resonates at a lower frequency? You're safe going lower than 9Hz.
If you have a mass loaded deck, then footfall or the deck on a tall rack forming the bob of a reversed pendulum are your main concerns(the deck moving sideways, not up and down).
On the other hand, going higher than f.res=14hz will have an effect on the low frequency response of your system, in the worst case causing your amp to waist power on the speakers, prematurely saturate the output trannies on your tube amp,, or (a friend experienced it on some BIIIG Infinity Speakers, -3db at 15Hz) severe feedback.
If your table is mounted on/like a rock, or it's suspension is well designed, then you get to enjoy listening to any combination your collection allows you to put together and the actual sonic qualities of the arm or cart will dictate the outcome.
Sounds like Raul is one of those lucky guys!

All the best,

Frank