Do you think you need a subwoofer?

Dear Eldartford: +++++ " My ability to sweep the X/O frequency without audible effect may not be usual " +++++

Certainly it is not .

In your Organ example ( crossover 200-300 Hz )and in your very well designed system I'm still worried about Intermodulation Distortions that with that high crossover frequency and with organ music it will be really high IMD: the organ music could go down to 16Hz or lower and normally in that kind of music your sub's are trying to reproduce frequencies in the very low bass: 16Hz to 40Hz and at the same time you are asking to reproduce in clean manner frequencies ( very critical audio range ) between 100Hz and 300Hz+, well this is what I'm concern of IMD.

Anyway at the " end of the day " you are crossing over 80Hz that makes more sense to me.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Sirspeedy: +++++ " if the main speakers can support a certain low frequency,before rolling off,it will be best to bring in the sub at just under this point. " +++++

Well this is one approach that mainly goes to have a lower bass response: it is the REL approach and other subwoofer manufacturers but not all of them.

My approach is different from yours, mine goes to obtain ( first place ) a better quality performance in my main speakers and in second place to achieve a better quality bass performance that could goes lower too.
I use two subwoofers in true stereo way to achieve those targets, the first one ( that you can't achieve with your approach. ) is obtained lowering the Intermodulation Distortion ( main speakers ), this means to stop to ask to the woofers ( main speakers ) the simultaneous reproduction of frequencies between 20Hz and 200HZ or higher( if yours goes flat to 30Hz then you still have some distorted response at 20Hz that makes higher the IMD subject/problem ), this means ( again ) that we have to choose a crossover frequency higher than what the main woofers are handled : in my case 60 Hz and in Eldartford 80Hz.
In this manner the main woofers will be free/less stressed of the low bass reproduction working from 60Hz-80Hz up and lowering ( cleaning in deep ) the IMD: this fact makes a huge improvement ( in any speaker including yours ) in the quality sound reproduction of the main speakers ( it is not matters what you think about or what I think about, lowering the IMD always improves the quality performance of " that " driver, physics laws. ).
The second advantage on this approach is that now the low bass frequency response not only goes down through the subwoofers but with a better quality bass performance due that those bass frequencies will be reproduced for " drivers /amplifiers " that were designed specific for those kind of bass frequencies.

I respect your approach but I don't like it because it can't give me a whole better quality performance in help to the music reproduction, instead my approach give us all. Through this thread are explained almost all you have to know about, please re-read it.

As I told you it does not matters what you and me think about, IMHO you must try that approach to make the " discovery " of your whole audio life.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Johnnyb53: +++++ " In system tuning, optimizing full-range speakers (let alone minimonitors) for imaging *and* bass response can drive you crazy. A sub enables you to tune for both. " +++++

This is one of the real subs integration advantages.

Regards and enjoy the music.
raul.

Dear Chad: +++++ " , the VMPS with outboard cross-over and a high power Caver amp with gain control for the woofers is all I need, Organ notes no problem. They claim usable bass down 10db at 16hz, " +++++

Well, this seems to me like you already have a subwoofer through your VMPS speakers, so you don't need an additional one. Btw, which croosover frequency do you choose?

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear friends: Almost always we can to be rewarding our time/efforts trying to improve our audio system setting.

Yesterday I wonder what could be happen if I set up my subwoofers a little higher from the floor and this is what I do, four inches total height ( maybe in the future I could try a higher one but for the moment I'm very satisfied. )

The change was/is remarkable: the bass is more tight and with better definition( pitch ), less " bass noise/garbage ", better midbass and clearer/clean midrange/high frequencies response. Awesome !!!!!!!!!

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.