Do you think you need a subwoofer?

Dear Ebm: I return with you because we don't have yet your answers.
For me is interesting to know your experiences on the subject because from what you posted I can/could assume that you learn/experience " something " special on the subject.

In the mid-time I want to share with you some comments on what you posted:

IMHO I think that if you, me or anyone want first rate deep bass ( below 40s ) the sub's alternative is a very good one. In this thread you can read elsewhere other true advantages.

If we take your Mini II's it does not matters that the set-up is right you never can have that clean deep bass with those speakers. Not only that and even with the high technology on those speakers the woofer frequency range that handle that driver is really wide: around 35 Hz to 3K, this is at least six octaves where the IMD is a serious concern, IMHO there is no perfect speaker drivers where in that wide frequency range the IMD measure cero. So, here the sub's alternative could help overall.

+++++ " In most cases it does not realy blend with the main speakers. " +++++

I agree with you but nothing is easy for improve the quality soud reproduction in a home audio system and specially on the sub/speaker blend: this is the challenge, it is not for sure a " plug&play " alternative, very faraway from there.

As you know normally nothing comes by " free " and almost always comes with trade-offs: in the sub's subject and for what I already experience about in several audio systems the sub's alternative is worth to try it.

It is for everyone, certainly not but IMHO a very good " road " to " explore ".

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Thank You Rauliruegas for all your knowledgeable info on the subject!!.If i ever get subwoofers i would ask your help. THANKS AGAIN. EBM

Dear Ebm: Well, I know that the subs alternative is something that unfortunately we can't decide through other system people but we have to try and hear in our system and this could means that we have to invest before hearing it.
The good news are that is very posible that we like it but if we don't always can put on sale the subs. So we almost can't loose and in the mid-time we can have some " fun " audio exercise where we can add something else to our audio learning curve.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Raul: Why do you think there is so much resistance on this subject? (Pun intended.)

Audiophiles are normally willing to go to any length to improve their system in even a small way, but for some reason the mere mention of subwoofers is enough to make them put their hands over their ears and just say no.

Certainly you have done your best to change people's perspective on this issue.

It's an interesting psychological question.

Dear Jimjoyce25: There are many factors that contribute to develop a poor " image " on subwoofers specially in the high-end stereo music reproduction market.

If you remember in the past ( many years ago ) no one use subs, the speakers were designed with a low bass range down to 35-40 Hz in the " biggest " models, almost no one ( for home music reproduction ) made speakers designs with that additional 1.5 octave on the low bass ( there were some exeptions, my ADS ones are one of that exceptions, but not many. ). Many manufacturers perhaps decide that because a " normal " speaker that goes down ( flt-clean ) to 20Hz must be BIG ( difficult to have at home ) and expensive and maybe they think that there are no " music " down there.
This last subject were and still today are supported by reviewers and audio dealers that are whom give the advise to the customers, so they give a non correct information to us the customers, so we have a misunderstood on the subs subject.

But not only that, in those times when the people start to ask/use subs normaly they use one unit ( stnd alone where you need to buy an amplifier to power it. Not many self powered subs in those times. ) and only to re-inforce the bass in their systems but with out any know-how or the right advise to why and how to do it ( some models even came with a fixed low-pass frequency and with out almost any facilities to really " blend " with your system. ), as time goes on many of these sub's users came disatisfied with the subs and put on sale and in their minds the figure of a subs were a " bad move " and they pass their experiences on the subject to other people.
If you check on audio magazines ( any ) of those times I can't remember any single reviewer that owned subs in his systems even the subs magazines reviewes were almost none, so the for the customers the subs were nothing or a " must " to have

Unfortunately the commercial subs came with no-facilities in the crossover, many with out amplifier, not so good drivers/woofers, not so good electronics ( even today some sub manufacturer IMHO don't put interest in the quality needs on the subs. That's why some of us made mods on them. ) and with almost no advise from any one. These anomalies make that many times the subs sound reproduction were of bad quality: only one note bam or boom boom and nothing more to appreciate.

The audio industry grow-up: better recordings, better quality speakers, better quality electronics and the like. The subs grow-up too but not at the same quality level than the other items and the audio magazines and audio dealers still with out support the subs subject, mainly IMHO because a very poor/small know-how about. So how the customers can think on the subs if no one speak about its advantages like a good alternative to improve the quality performance of almost any audio system? even the speaker manufacturers that build subs like Wilson, Krell, Thiel,, etc, etc, don't really promote their subs models, why? I can't be sure if it is for they do not have the know-how level or because they have it and goes against its full business, let me explain this last comment with an example:
if someone owns a WattP-8 and want to improve/up-grade the quality performance on his system through a new speakers ( normaly same manufacturer, in this case Wilson. ) almost always he/they think in the next top model: the MAXX3 instead to add subs to the WP8, this subs alternative it is not only less expensive but one that beats the MAXX3 quality performance but the manufacturer and the dealer say nothing about, never give to the customer this alternative.

There are a lot of mis-information , misunderstood and non know-how on the subs great alternative in a stereo systems. Many people are still thinking that the subs are for HTS and not to listen " serious music " ( even manufacturers like REL that have not a high-pass filter in its crossover. ). Unfortunately is sad that all these people are loosing the best an ever opportunity to really improve the quality performance in their home systems.

In this thread we can read many of the advantages adding two subs in real stereo fashion where the main one is not IMHO " only " to achieve low bass but improve the quality performance of the main speakers!, till the people understand the why's and how's on the subs subject they will continue hearing ( obviously not all. ) home systems with a " weak " leg.

Yes, IMHO everywhere ( manufacturers, reviewers, dealers. Not all. ) non know-how on the subject is the main " culprit ", of course that money or space/place's limitations have a role too.

Like everything the subs subject is an educational one, many audio people are at the low subs learning curve, sooner or latter we all will grow-up on that learning curve where the rewards are almost incredible and of paramount importance in favor of the MUSIC perception.

There are other factors that have influence but it will be too long to analyze each one even I can be wrong on what I think.

What do you think? do you want to grow-up? do you want to be better?

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.