Turntables New vs Used


Thought I would post this as possible food for thought. Have been in this hobby since 1957 and have owned a great many tables both new and used. My first audiophile table was a Dual 1019 and it has evolved from there.

I deal a lot in turntables both new and used, sort of a hobby business. With that in mind in recent years there has been several new tables to hit the market such as those from Music Hall,Project, and so on. Not all but most of the tables in the sub $1,000.00 range are just horrid to say the least. For what one pays in this category,one can find true stellar turntables in the used market.

Used tables from Sota,VPI and Rega will clearly outperform anything from Music Hall, Project and others.

This is not meant to disparage Music Hall or Project or others of the same category. But when one truly looks into what is available in the used market,it becomes readily apparent that the higher end used tables will sonically be superior to the new offerings.

I know for the last few months have had several of the Music Hall and Project tables as well as others come and go through the door.

To be candid there is no black art or voodoo science in turntable design. Physics and Geometry are basic law and are absolute with debate not being possible.

But many of these new tables have seem to have forgotton these basic laws and some of the new tables are pure dreck and I am being kind there.

Turntables from VPI,Sota,Rega,Nottingham,Bluenote,Clearaudio,JA Michell,and Simon Yorke offer tables that firmly place them among the best in the world,with sound engineering principles.

Plus the upgrade path is clearly there for future sonic improvements as materials and science come about.

In addition the price one will pay for one of the used tables make these some of the best bargains for today and tomorrow. However with all things used do make sure of whom you get it from and that you are getting what you pay for.

Don't overlook many of the excellent direct drive used tables from Denon,Kenwood,Yamaha,Technics and others. But do concentrate on thier upper end models forgoing the lower model line up.

All in all the current used market represents far greater value than most of the mass produced new tables.

For instance a Rega P3 is in my opinion is vastly superior to a Music Hall MMF 7 and at less cost, new price to new price. I know I have had both here in recent months. Used the Rega P 3 is a hands down winner in this category.

Both VPI and Sota are easily accessed via phone or e Mail and are most helpful in their product line.

The choice is yours and it is your money.
ferrari
Lets look at this whole turntable endeavour through the eyes of Simon Yorke who produces in my opinion one of the worlds great turntable product. Although most of us will not be able to make the quantum leap to such a table. His views are more than valid. And companies that I hold in high esteem such as those menetioned at the beginning of this thread. The Simon Yorke tables are in use in the U.S. Library of Congress, in fact they have 9 of them. These are true reference tables of the highest caliber.

Below are his words and philosophy:

When Henry T Ford conceived the idea of mass-production, he envisaged a world of plenty, of unlimited resources, wealth, and boundless opportunity to create profit. In time, however, we have witnessed mass-production stimulate mass-consumption to the point where our lives have become dictated to by a world of epic commercialism that has overrun all other meaning.

In our centrally-heated homes we are insulated from the cold, the light, the wind, the rain and much of the feeling of being "alive". We have become creatures of an unreal, robotic world, denying our true nature, and it seems to be bringing us little other than anguish and confusion. Our modern factories consume resources at one end, and produce an endless stream of products at the other - each new product remorselessly designed to allure us with its advertised essentiality - thus perpetuating the whole destructive system. And though we know that this syndrome cannot be sustained we seem largely unable, or unwilling, to face reality and search for a more realistic, satisfying and responsible means of existence.

In this world of mass-manufactured items, all aspiration towards excellence in craftsmanship has been discarded in favour of the predictability of the robot; the desire for quality has given way to the demands of quantity and price, and the quest for profit has consumed almost everything in its wake. It is an evolutionary process that is destroying not only our physical world, but our spiritual wealth also. The emphasis upon science as the sole driving force of our modern society has led to the wholesale abandonment of concern for the nourishment of the inner or spiritual self. The accumulated wisdom of preceding generations has been arrogantly discarded in favour of a blind pursual of an 'instant science' which leaves us without beliefs, feelings or understanding.

I have great admiration for the high principles of our forefathers; for their undoubting vision and respect for preceding cultures; for their great cathedrals and works of art, and for their perfectionist attitude. One needs only to examine closely the everyday products of our modern society to conclude that the technological ground we have gained since their time has been largely at the expense of the human satisfaction they seem to have enjoyed. So many of our modern products are unfulfilling in terms of design, manufacture and ownership: they meet daily needs in a perfunctory, businesslike manner, but fail to stimulate our inner sense of beauty, feeling and understanding. In short, they fail to satisfy our true humanity, and accordingly cost us dearly.

Our world is abrim with ordinary products meeting ordinary needs: this is mediocrity, and in my view mediocrity is our greatest sin, for it belittles us and our achievements and discredits our intelligence and greater wisdom. It is my desire to produce only the very best that I am capable of; I aspire towards excellence, for it is my belief that only through such an approach can true meaning be found. And surely it is the search for meaningful experience that is the very essence of humankind. Of course in business it is necessary to make a profit, but there must, for me, be something greater than a simple financial goal: a desire to create art that steps beyond the daily reality of our lives, that reaches into, and stimulates, our inner selves. An art which has respect for the music and culture it serves, and which seeks, genuinely, to enhance the lives of others.

Building musical instruments (for that is how I consider my work) is an important and serious business. I do not view these creations as mere products: they embody a philosophy which is important to me. I therefore continue to strive toward the design and construction of real musical instruments, better able to help people experience their emotional selves more honestly, and to encourage a deeper and more rewarding relationship with the wonder and passion of our musical inheritance. For within this musical history is contained all the hope, pain, joy, wonder, desperation and inspiration of our species. Perhaps more succinctly than all other forms of human expression, it is music which most honestly reflects our true humanity.

The purpose of "Simon Yorke Designs" is thus to offer a meaningful alternative to the vain, destructive and often nihilistic rationale of the modern "fast-moving-consumer-goods"-led society: to mingle philosophy with craftsmanship, art with engineering, and present the refreshingly simple ways of Zen, as best I can, in reverential sculpted form. It is my hope that through this work I can be of some value to our world.

Simon Yorke, August 1992

Certainly if one has the resources and the rest of the gear to accomodate the Simon Yorke tables this is the way to go. It is almost impossible to find Simon Yorke turntables in the used market. People that have them, just do not sell them. They are that spectacular. for the most part the Simon Yorke tables are the end game in analog.

But it is not a let down to get VPI,Sota,Nottingham,Linn,Rega or the like. Because one is getting the engineering and quality materials, with close attention to the laws of physics and geometry. Where merchandising and hype are not the key elements.
Ferrari -

In one of the recent editions of Stereophile, Fremer enthused about the top Brinkmann turntable, concluding that it bests the sound of his reference Simon Yorke rig. Do you have any view on the Brinkmann turntable?
I have not as of yet been able to acquaint myself with the Brinkmann product. Although with that being said, I seldom agree with Michael Fremer. TAS and Stereophile used to be at one time very fine underground journals that covered the high end industry. One has to take with a grain of salt any reviews in a magazine that are driven by advertising revenues.

That is why I totally recommend one visits a dealer and makes up ones mind based totally on thier musical involvement with whatever product they have interest in.

I am famaliar with the Simon Yorke product,as on Palm Beach many of my former customers have these units. With that being said it is difficult to reason a better product than the Simon Yorke S 7. Although it may be possible do to so.
Uhhhmmmm. Palm Beach, uh. Sorry, think I'll pass. Not what it used to be, you know.
Over the years have had way to many SL 1200 pass through the doors, no longer impresses me to value,sonics,build quality and the tone arm is in my opinion way outdated.

1) value

2) build quality

3) outdated tonearm

I've always read ignorant remarks about #3, but #1 & #2 are a first!

What is a 'current' tonearm in this price range? A Rega 250, RB600 perhaps? One 1200 modder who's an electrical engineer tried the 250 and the 600 Rega tonearms and went back to the stock "outdated" (but with excellent *published* bearing friction specs Technics tonearm. What the stock tonearm lacks is some control and the KAB fluid damper deals with the issue. The modded 1200 will smoke any belt drive you mentioned by far.

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