What Turntable to buy under $600 ?

"Fact is there are none on the market"

The Garrard 301, 401 and 501 sell for pretty big money when fully restored, and I have known people dump top spec. LP12s to get a garrard. The LP12 is not the best incarnation of belt drive, but it's good enough that if it is replaced with a Garrard there must be something to these idler-drive decks.

I must admit that my basic knowledge of physics would suggest that a Teres type approach (which is really brute force and ignorance) using a massive platter, a slender, non-elastic belt and a minimal motor, would appear to be optimum, but there are some who prefer the music from the Garrard. I personally have heard neither, but I would not discount either.

I have never heard a "hifi" setup Technics SL1200, so I would never write that off either. Again, I know of people who have dumped Rega P3s for an SL1200, and I know of people who have dumped SL1200s for Rega P3s, so it strikes me that neither would be obviously a better choice without first hearing it.

dvdgreco if you can stretch the budget a little a Michell tecnodec or Nottingham horizon will better the P3 for not much more money.

There sure is a lot of talk of "facts" on this thread. So here's some actual facts, get ready to shell out your money Pauly, I expect it to be in a flash:

"In defense of my poor maligned TNT, Jean, even you admitted it is quite a musical turntable, more so since I replaced its Dyna 10X5 with a second Denon DL-103. But it WAS rather massacred by the Lenco, I'll be the first to admit."

"i bought an LP12 with valhalla and ittok initially and was quite pleased for a while. for me (and my ten thumbs), set-up issues plagued that particular table. i heard a basic teres setup and promptly sold the linn as the sound quality bested the linn by an embarassingly large margin. i then had a teres 245 with moerch dp-6 and allaerts mc-1b. unfortunately, my teres had problems of it's own (recurrent motor controller faults, cracked base that had to be replaced, etc. etc.). i now use a modified lenco L-75 with moerch dp-6 arm and denon DL-160 cartridge and have achieved what is easily the best sound (and reliability) to date.
flyingred's concluding remark pretty well sums it up. whatever table/arm/cart combination you eventually decide upon, enjoy the music!"

"I have had a fantastic evening's listening. The Lenco is everything claimed here and more. As forecast by Jean, there is bass in abundance (not a noted Koetsu characteristic), fantastic dynamics, energy, slam, PRaT, call it what you will, and the detail and clarity are stunning. I have been listening to some serious money turntables over the last few months and the budget Lenco beats most of them - I'm not sure yet whether it's better than a Galibier I heard a few weeks ago but it's pretty close. I'll be better able to comment when I put the DL-103 on the FR64. There's no doubt in my mind that the Lenco is preferable to the Teres 265 and 360, Nottinham Spacedeck and Hyperspace, SME 10, Kuzma Stabi and of course my old Linn."

The traditional defense against these types of actual verifications of the claims presented here is that a) there was something wrong with the set-up; and b) the system was not of sufficient quality. The gist of all defenses against actual verification so far is that since it contradicts Dogma/belief, then something HAD to be wrong somewhere, this could NOT be accurate, therefore it could not be, period. Or you could accept them as evidence, put your money where your mouth is, and join in the Great Lenco Experiment, and risk having some fun in the process. But please, hold back on all the "facts", as you yourself wrote, "Have you ever spent time and listened to a $1500 cart? Do you even know what they sound like?" Substitute "Garrard" or "Lenco" for "$1500 cart".

Johnnantais. I give you 11 out of 10 for trying, but you are crossing the line into the ridiculous.

'So here's some actual facts'

A few opinions posted on the BB are hardly facts. And no, simply because you really like these opinions don’t make them facts either.

'there is bass in abundance (not a noted Koetsu characteristic)'

Really? I guess I must have an odd Koetsu as my Rosewood pounds at the bass.

'fantastic dynamics, energy, slam, PRaT, call it what you will, and the detail and clarity are stunning'

I have heard people say that about iPods. Can we get a respected audio journalist/critique to say that about a Lenco? Maybe, but I have yet to see that.

'I have been listening to some serious money turntables over the last few months and the budget Lenco beats most of them'

Really? In home or a 10-15 minute listen at an audio show or store? Did you listen to material you are familiar with or not? Are you familiar with neutral and accurate sound, or used to a particular coloration produced by your own equipment? Was the associated equipment the same. What about the arm and carts used? Room acoustics?

Added note – having endured a (painful) karaoke evening a few weeks ago, it was obvious that some individuals actually prefer a colored (read distorted, boomy and smeared) sound. Those individuals are totally unimpressed by an accurate and natural representation of music.

No, I have not listened to a Lenco or Garrard. I have however spend many hours listening to a well restored and well setup TD124. The sound was very colored and there was a very noticeable lack of low level detail. Not nice ...

Regards
Paul

Sean, your point is what?

You quote my statement of "Fact is there are none on the market" and go on to talk about restoring tables that have been OFF the market for 30 odd years?

Surely you do not think that Garrards are still being sold no?