What Turntable to buy under $600 ?

Stan and Pauly - we are talking about a very specific few sub-$600 table/arm/cartridge combos. In that realm, given the TT choices so far presented, I stand by my previous post 110%.

Of course an SME 309 arm sounds better on a VPI than on a $40 Fisher TT, and a 3" inch thick acrylic platter with a ring clamp sounds better than a 3/32" hollow aluminum platter. And they do ONLY because they obviously perform the 3 functions I enumerated better than a Fisher El Crappo does. But those aren't the choices we're talking about here, nor are we talking about an El Crappo.

We're pretty much considering a P3, a Technics 1200, or a Lenco type. These all have their specific strengths/weaknesses, but they're playing in the same league. So I still say that the cartridge that DVDGreco chooses (and it's synergy with the arm) will impact his enjoyment of the music more than which of these tables he ends up with.

Johnnantias.

I guess reverting to insults when you cannot produce objective reasons for your views is probably as good as you can do. Throwing insults at me is rather sad as you know nothing about me personally, nothing about my musical requirements, musical tastes, my equipment or experience in audio. Like Physic you do not respond to legitimate questions directly, rather sidestep and counter with insults. In the circles I move in that is considered as somewhat infantile behavior, but I understand it may be totally acceptable in yours so no offence taken on my part

FYI, the advice you gave dvdgreco echo what I gave him before you eccentrics climbed out the woodwork. Rather foolish after calling me the fool no?

I do not reject your so-called 'Lenco challenge' out of ignorance, but due to a number of objective reasons and subjective experiences/observations I have had over many years in the hobby. Saying you are “throwing down the gauntlet” is not unlike a heroin addict telling me not to knock it till I try it. No, I need some objective reasons before spending money effort and time – all you have come up with is hearsay.

In fact you preference of an modified RB300 over a SME IV tells me the table has some serious flaws.

As somebody that builds my own vacuum amps, I also succumb to having a less critical ear for my own creations. So I do not begrudge people that restore antique tables. Unlike you, I can at least come up with a couple of objective reasons why the amps I built are more suitable for audio than most commercial transistor amps.

Regards
Paul

Obviously these guys don't play salsa music...

Here's a 'noisy' rim drive for Pauly:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgtabl&1134731119

Killer...

That shows how much ewe really know about audio, dude!

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Oh I have had a laugh reading all this. Poor bloke asks for advice on a mid price TT and it descends into a farce. I have three cheap to mid price turntables set up. Two excel at particular types of music and one is superb at all types of music.
1 Goldring GR2 (read Rega P3 here) came with a Rega RB250 arm. God it was awful. The table is cheap and nasty but you know what with the Goldring 1012X it came fitted with it sounds brillant on rock music. I was so impressed that I sent the arm away to Origin Live for a full set of upgrades (cost about $700) but worh it, also fitted the Heed Audio speed box. That baby really sings.

2 An Ebay special, a 30 year old Ariston RD11s with SME3 with the fluid damp trough and an integrated SME Ortofon 30H. Eningeering is king and this has it in spades. It will outlive me and be passed onto my children. It weighs a ton but as the basis for the later Linn LP12 it has shown its worth. Takes ages to get up to speed but when there it is the among the best TTs for classical music there is.

3 Sorry guys but the finest turntable that will play anything you throw at it with a silky smooth background, oodles of detail, dynamics and absolute clarity is my Technics SL1200 Mk2 with full KAB mods including screw down clamp, strobe disabler, external power supply etc etc and the superb KAB groovemaster. Sublime.

I have the Ariston and Goldring in my study and the Technics in the lounge. To really appreciate the differences between the three, I play them them through Graham Slee Amp2 SE phono stage (with uprated power supplies) I have three of them and two Graham Slee Solo headphone amplifiers driving Senheiser HD600s with Russ Andrews Kimber cable. It really doesn't matter what electronics you use though, the differences will shine through. Remember Garbage in Garbage out.

So the advice is buy the Rega if you listen to mainly rock music and spend some money on upgrading the arm or if you listen to all types of music buy the Technics and follow KABs upgrade path. I you are willing to take a chance, look at used decks from yesteryear but be careful as spares are few and far between.