K&K any comments?

I could not agree any less with you Cobra, particularly in the areas you find to be the weakest. Then you go on to say "tube rolling". Please tell us what tubes you rolled through the K&K, if you don't mind.

Dynamically unimpressive, chisels off the edges? Were you listening to the same phono stage as many of thes rest of us?
"The sound stays on the other side of the room behind the baffle plane of your speakers." Sounds like the rest of your system (speakers or amp) is the culprit, perhaps.

I (and about 8 others), did a comparison awhile back at a local audio dealer's place and we threw the K&K up against quite a number of others. Don't recall everyone right now (I could check) but I know the EAR, a Klyne, a Pass Xono, an Aesthetix Rhea, and about four others were in the mix. In summary, it bested everything up to $5K in a virtually unanimous opinion. The characteristics most often sited was almost diametrically opposite of what you have stated above – and that one of its BEST attributes was that it was NOT buttery smooth as gone overboard by some tube stages but, by virtue of its hybrid design, captured the best of both worlds (something like a Boulder notwithstanding, of course).

Another thing to consider might possibly be break in time, which is why I ask the OP if they had ordered yet. When mine was new, and again when I had some resistors replaced in the MC stage, the soundstage, imaging, and refinement of presentation took a good 80 hours to FULLY develop. I found the soundstage a bid constricted at first. But then, it widened, then it deepened, then it widened and deepened again, all the while becoming both more tight and more refined (if that can be appreciated).

Anyway, just another point of view (and that of about 8-12 others I know personally).

I would REALLY like to have you comment on what tubes you rolled in the K&K. Thanks

I know what Phil is getting at in his description, but the K&K will remain in my system for the forseeable future. I have'nt heard the others, but the K&K clearly bested the Bel Canto to my ears. As always, it comes down to the sound you like and I am using this "smooth" stage with a smooth cartridge, a Koetsu Rosewood Signature and am entranced by the sound. I find very fast stages that etch the leading edge of notes, wearing. For example the TE Groove is a wonderful phonostage and I see why people like it, but I would find it wearing. So listen to it if you can, I bought it unheard(I live in the UK) a dangerous thing, but it is way the best and quietest stage I have had in my system. That is one thing I strongly disagree with Phil about, I think it is very quiet, with excellent RFI rejection.

213cobra, excellent comments which point to how important listener preferences are in high end audio. Among the better products it really is hard to say that one is clearly better than another. It's usually a case of the listener's preferences more closely matching the equipment makers set of design compromises.

Dear 4yanx/Dan_ed: I don't know the audio devices that form the audio system of that 4yanx/friends dealer but the 213Cobra system is a very high resolution one specially those Zu full range/101db efficiency speakers.

It is common to have these kind of totally different opinions when two audio systems are really different. Now these are the music sound reproduction targets for 213Cobra:

" Expression + Resolution + Tone + Presence, all in balance. "
In his system he think that the K&K don't achieve these goals: that's all, it is not up to the task.

Btw Dan, I think that 213Cobra or any one else has the right to express his opinion; it does not matters if some one already take a choice on an audio device. All the opinions help to all of us to understand better our hobby.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

I had the K&K in my system for well over a month. It got lots of hours and I felt it had stabilized before I drew conclusions. Additionally, half a dozen other people joined me for comparisons at various times and assessments were aligned. Last, a vendor exhibiting at HE2006 here in L.A. stopped by to run the comparison for an exhibiting decision and their preference too ran against the K&K for the same reasons. In that context, we also listened to the K&K with a Modwright Preamp, as well as with the Klimo Merlino Gold. However, I am sure the units owner will continue to bake it in and I'll have a chance to hear it in the future. If things change, I'll be happy to say so.

I agree that fast stages that etch leading edge transients are a problem if they don't deliver the full tone behind the attack. I reject components that do this, but it's not what I hear in the group that comprised this comparison. Anyway, the K&K sounded pleasant and old school to me, as I said committing sins of omission, not commission. Which is what you want if you have to live with flaws.

I evaluated the K&K with the stock tubes because tube subs did not change the basic sonic character of the unit. The smooth signature seems to be intrinsic to the circuit, not the tube. I have some 6n1pev, which are a trace quieter, and I tried the ~sub of various NOS 6922 (Siemens, Valvo) and CCA (Telefunken, Seimens, Valvo, Zaerix, Sylvania). Results were mixed, with nothing able to significantly alter my impressions of the preamp.

I do agree RFI rejection seemed quite good, as any gear that can't reject RFI shows that flaw in my area immediately. However, the K&K was discernibly but not agfressively the noisiest of the group I directly compared it to. Now, that said, it's a comparative comment. Phono is noisy by modern hifi standards and the noise alone wouldn't have precluded me preferring the K&K.

To be clear, this was a Total Phono SE factory-assembled unit that was loaned to me for evaluation by its buyer. Not a kit, not customized.

Anticipating a possible break-in issue with the MC input transformers, I also used a couple of external step-up transformers into the moving magnet inputs, including S&B. Same result. The sonic signature of the active gain stage of this unit is overriding of secondary influencers and is very strong. Since phono sections are particularly subject to highly individual preferences, I assume that it reflects the listening bias of the designer, and I fully understand why some people are enthusiastic about the K&K. It just hasn't been convincing to me as earning an unconditional recommendation. But if smooth is your first order criterion, then this has it. For me, the K&K is nice but regressive, and makes music less expressive and more emotionally remote than I expect from hifi. I understand why others disagree.

Phil