K&K any comments?


I think I finally decided on the K&K Phono preamp, is there anything I should know? I plan on using a sumiko blackbird cartridge and vpi tnt turntable.
pedrillo
I had the K&K in my system for well over a month. It got lots of hours and I felt it had stabilized before I drew conclusions. Additionally, half a dozen other people joined me for comparisons at various times and assessments were aligned. Last, a vendor exhibiting at HE2006 here in L.A. stopped by to run the comparison for an exhibiting decision and their preference too ran against the K&K for the same reasons. In that context, we also listened to the K&K with a Modwright Preamp, as well as with the Klimo Merlino Gold. However, I am sure the units owner will continue to bake it in and I'll have a chance to hear it in the future. If things change, I'll be happy to say so.

I agree that fast stages that etch leading edge transients are a problem if they don't deliver the full tone behind the attack. I reject components that do this, but it's not what I hear in the group that comprised this comparison. Anyway, the K&K sounded pleasant and old school to me, as I said committing sins of omission, not commission. Which is what you want if you have to live with flaws.

I evaluated the K&K with the stock tubes because tube subs did not change the basic sonic character of the unit. The smooth signature seems to be intrinsic to the circuit, not the tube. I have some 6n1pev, which are a trace quieter, and I tried the ~sub of various NOS 6922 (Siemens, Valvo) and CCA (Telefunken, Seimens, Valvo, Zaerix, Sylvania). Results were mixed, with nothing able to significantly alter my impressions of the preamp.

I do agree RFI rejection seemed quite good, as any gear that can't reject RFI shows that flaw in my area immediately. However, the K&K was discernibly but not agfressively the noisiest of the group I directly compared it to. Now, that said, it's a comparative comment. Phono is noisy by modern hifi standards and the noise alone wouldn't have precluded me preferring the K&K.

To be clear, this was a Total Phono SE factory-assembled unit that was loaned to me for evaluation by its buyer. Not a kit, not customized.

Anticipating a possible break-in issue with the MC input transformers, I also used a couple of external step-up transformers into the moving magnet inputs, including S&B. Same result. The sonic signature of the active gain stage of this unit is overriding of secondary influencers and is very strong. Since phono sections are particularly subject to highly individual preferences, I assume that it reflects the listening bias of the designer, and I fully understand why some people are enthusiastic about the K&K. It just hasn't been convincing to me as earning an unconditional recommendation. But if smooth is your first order criterion, then this has it. For me, the K&K is nice but regressive, and makes music less expressive and more emotionally remote than I expect from hifi. I understand why others disagree.

Phil
And no, 4yanx, the rest of my system was not the culprit in the K&K's inability to project sound into the room. If you know Zu Definitions and any decent 845 amp, you know this is not the case. The system is highly involving, dynamic, spatially convincing and infused with jump. All the other phono stages took full advantage of those traits. With the K&K in, it all sank back. It was like listening to really good phono in 1975, by comparison. Pleasant and smooth but not projected. More to the point, my digital player has more projection with plain Redbook CD than the K&K, with same performance material, and that isn't true with the compared phono pres.

Phil
Fine, Phil, you have your opinion, and so do I. Fair enough. I know that I get plenty of projection. I personally think labelling something to sound like a 1975 phono is just plain silly since many made in 1975 sound better than those made last week. Given the circuit in the K7K I am very surprised that you didn't fry those 6922's you tried in there. I'd have thought that they'd have run just a tad on the torrid side.... Yes, I have heard the Zu's and, while I have heard very good 845 amps, the Druids were not my cup of tea in the systems in which I heard them, so maybe tastes are the difference here.

Raul, to the extent I should reply to you at all, I would have to check regarding the exact "other" equipment used when that comparison over two days was done (it is in my notes somehere). As I recall, one of the amps used was a super high-end Nagra and the other I know was a Boulder 2060, so I don't think the "resolution" was an issue, as much as you'd probably like to make that inference. The speakers I do not recall at all.

I also swapped the K&K out with several other phono stages borrowed and begged from friends and, in my system, it sounds almost directly opposite to what Phil describes. I go with a Platinum Edition McCormack DNA-225 through a Bent NOH passive and into Vandersteen Model 5A's so, while maybe not the final word in resolution, it'll hold its own with a number of systems and is hardly 70's vintage sounding (assuming that Phil's prupose is to deride with the 70's sounding analogy). Plus, things like "emotionally remote" and "less expressie music" do not do a whole lot in describing to me how something sounds other than to come across as so subjective that we'd better just leave this as a difference in opinions and/or ears. :-)
Hi Raul. Where have you been lately? Phil, and others, I did not mean to discourage input. I was under the impression that Padrillo had already made his decision and just wanted to support him a bit. I completely agree with comments about system synergy and personal preference. That said, I am curious about some of the comments made about the K&K hybrid and leading edge etching, if that's what Phil was saying. This just makes me wonder how cartridge and phono stage matching might have played into this. If that information was given I admit that I've missed it. It's been a pretty busy last few days for me so I've tried to keep up with one eye on this thread.

Phil, I am most interested in the Zu's. If I'm correct about the efficiency you have the Druid?

Best to all,

Dan
Not that it makes much difference, to me any way, but in case others bvesides Raul wondered about peripheral equipment:
Amps
Nagra VPA monos (did someone say 845's?)
Boulder 2060
Preamps:
Boulder 2010
Lamm L2
Tables:
SME 30/2 w/SMW V/Koetsu Rosewood Signature
Basis 2800 Signature w/Schroeder Reference/Van den Hul Frog
Speakers:
Cello (Grand Masters, I think, need ot double check)

So, this is not MY systems, but IO wish it was - decidedly one on which a piece could be objectively assessed, anyway.

At any rate, I hope everyone enjoys their music this weeekend.