33 vs 45 speed quality

I've bought quite a few albums on 33 and then the 45 version when available. These are with various labels, but my comparison is generally within a particular label. In all cases I've found the 45 rpm to be significantly better. Any album that I really treasure I will always seek out a 45 if it's available.

Thanks for all your input. In truth I have not compared similar recordings in both 33 and 45. I guess I was expecting something similar with the difference from LP to Cd which was a BIG difference. The switch to LP was real eye opener. The fuss over amps and speakers seems to be absurd with a system with only CD playback when a TT is such a huge upgrade.

There are a couple of other aspects worth mentioning. The higher rpm does better with more highly modulated passages, offering more articulation in the bass and greater dynamic slam, and allowing the entire record to be cut somewhat "hotter", improving the S/N ratio. (Provided, of course, that your cart and arm can keep up and take advantage of it, as well as your phonostage.) Another difference, not necessarily an advantage, is that what background groove noise you do hear will be in a higher frequency range at the higher rpm, which subtly alters the perceived character of the listening experience vs. the same recording cut at the lower rpm. But perhaps the dominant difference in a lot of instances could be that the 33 and 45 rmp releases of the same material may not have been mastered together by the same people at the same time in the same facility, in which case all bets are off and there's no reason not to expect them to sound noticeably different.

Zaikesman...Interesting ideas about effect on surface noise. I'm not so sure about the "dynamic slam". We are agreement about remastering for the audiophile market.

Have you ever listened to a phono signal without RIAA equalization? (You do this with a microphone preamp). The bass is so severely attenuated in the signal that it is a wonder that anything useful can be derived from it. I think that some enterprising audiophile outfit should toss the RIAA curve and 33 rpm speed in the trash can, and start over with the understanding that appropriate (special) playback equipment is necessary to use the resulting vinyl product. A niche market.

The DBX vinyl records of several decades ago were like this (required a decoder box) and the results were excellent. The DBX system addressed every troublesome aspect of vinyl playback. Too bad that the system came out just when CDs were introduced. Were it not for CDs, we would be using the DBX system today...IMHO.

Eldee: Since I don't buy 45 rpm audiophile remasterings, I can only go by what I hear with regular 7" singles vs. the same cuts as album tracks. But the theory isn't unlike that with magnetic tape, where there can be greater dyanamic and frequency range and a better S/N ratio at a higher record/play speed. (I haven't heard a 16 rpm record in years, and never on a good machine, but I'd imagine they would be decidedly low-fi at best.) Due to the more "physical" nature of tracing a groove with a stylus and the tracking errors inherent in most phono playback arrangements, I'm sure the point of diminishing returns (i.e., practical problems) with increasing speed probably sets in earlier with vinyl than with tape (I doubt the kind of speed displayed by computer data-storage tape transports of yesteryear could be approached by any needle and groove arrangement). But the "stretched-out", "big" groove on a 45 demonstrates that at least to a point, the higher rpm system also makes for a hardier medium, sailing through damage that would render an LP unplayable, though not all of this is because of speed per se. BTW, what leads you to think that if a niche audiophile standard for vinyl disks were adopted, it could sound better for encoding *greater* bass amplitude on the record, rather than less? (Well, you don't actually say that, only seem to imply it.) I have no experience with the DBX system, but I assume it also used compression/expansion? Audiophiles would never go for that, and I'd think probably with good reason...