Building high-end 'tables cheap at Home Despot II

Time now for the Mighty to Tremble, in what is shaping up to be a very exciting and significant New Year!!! Having applied all the lessons learned in maximizing the potential of Lencos, and using "Mr. Red" as my Reference and Standard, I sent out a Garrard 301 I rebuilt for the owner of a Platine Verdier, and first impressions have come back already, featuring the word "embarrassing".

Now, before I continue, let's return to logic and the Law of Diminishing Returns: if the Lenco - and back when none of the more recent mods and principles had been applied - was CRUSHING highly-regarded belt-drives like the maxed-out Linn LP12s, Well Tempereds, various Nottinghams and VPIs, then what did this mean for the ultimate performance of the idler-wheel drive principle vis-a-vis the "competition"? Given that once one reached a certain level of performance, improvements should have been incremental and not orders of magnitude?!? With Direct Coupling (and still in the absence of Giant Mass or the Glass Mod) and motor-tuning a small Lenco humiliated a VPI TNT (even if an earlier model), and again given the Law of Diminishing Returns what does this mean for the idler-wheel drive system?

Now already recently a Giant Direct Coupled Glass-Reinforced Lenco bested one of the great legends of Direct Drives, an EMT 948 (which in its turn humiliated - the word shocking was used by the owner - upper-end belt-drives by, I believe, Basis and Amazon), and according to the report, all other EMTs as well, proving it takes an idler to beat an idler ;-) (DDs now out of the picture, at least until I try out the servo-controlled and simpler variety). Now the report, from the owner of the Platine Verdier, not a mere witness, is that the Giant Garrard 301 oil-bearing (in traditional CLD birch-ply/MDF plinth) has crushed, in no uncertain terms and at a disadvantage (no platform, cheap cartridge, lesser phono stage vs the Platine Verdier with extremely expensive MC, on superb platform into much better phono stage) the superb and well thought-out Platine Verdier. As you can all imagine, the system in which this all took place is superb.

Now by this I am NOT saying the Platine Verdier is not superb: it is a work of industrial art with some amazing engineering and design ideas, and true Collector's item (if one is fortunate enough to afford it) and MUCH better built again than the "humble" Garrard 301. So what, again does this mean? It means my Fellow Idler-Wheelers, that the idler-wheel drive system is the best of the three systems currently available, and that by a fairly large margin, no other conclusion need be made. If only the superb Platine Verdier had an idler-wheel drive system, alas!!!

So far only rough and short descriptions have been sent me as the fellows involved are too busy listening to the music, but if more details come in, I will pass them on, assuming I have their blessings, and more news of great significance to boot, which I will sit on for now. Btw, these fellows deserve kudos for seriously considering both the logic and the mounting evidence, for their intrepid sense of adventure, for trusting the evidence of their ears,and for recognizing that high-end belt-drives had some serious musical issues, which is what led them to consider taking the step of trying their hands at idler-wheel drives. Similar kudos go out to ALL those who have had the gumption to do so, and to those who are seriously considering it. Reports will continue, converts will continue to be converted, underground and behind the scenes, it's too late to put a cap on this particular Pandora's Box, The Idler is Out, have fun all, have the spine to trust your ears and stand by them (and identify and reject the unreasoning prejudices with which your minds are infected, as many have already done, again kudos): the ultimate measuring device when it come to reproduction of music.

Now, I write and report this purely out of an interest in discovering the truth of the matter and out of idealism...in opposition to the Politically Correct stand - made by those who are more interested in garnering support and cheaply and easily gaining "respect" than in discovering the truth - that claims, in the absence of tests to determine if this is true, that all three systems are equivalent. But in the interest of keeping the subject alive and stimulating debate I write...Vive la Lenco, Vive la Idler-Wheel!!!! WHAT a New Year!!

I found a post on the Hi-Fi World forum that says that people are liking Singer Sewing Machine Oil on Garrard motor and idler wheel shafts. Mobile One on the main bearing. I hadn't seen the Singer oil mentioned before (supposedly recommended by Loricraft) - I am going to try it.

Mike

How can the Lenco sound so good? I want to be able to explain this to sophisticated audio friends as I demonstrate my new Lenco That Jean Built. Some people will more readily believe their ears if there's a clear, plausible explanation for what they're hearing!

As far as I know there are only two things that determine a turntable's sonic quality, speed stability and the absence of any extraneous vibration where the stylus meets the record grooves.

It makes sense to me that the Lenco's 1800 RPM motor will have a momentum that minimizes motor speed imperfections as opposed to a motor turning much more slowly, and that an idler wheel provides a firmer connection to the platter than a belt drive.

I suspect belt drive turntables got the jump on idler wheel drive machines because they often had less vibration, especially after they began to be designed with the motor separated and isolated from the body of the table itself. It's taken the kind of experimenting being reported here to demonstrate that massive plinths, direct coupling, motor tuning and other techniques can reduce vibration in idler drive systems down to a level comparable with good belt drive systems. At which point the idler drive's inherently superior speed stability makes it the superior alternative.

Have I basically got it right? Are there other factors that explain how wonderful my Black Beauty sounds?

Bob

That's exactly it Bob. The reaction that it CANNOT BE simply superior speed stability that accounts for the Lenco's (and Garrard's, and idlers in general) incredible sound is a very common one, and I hear it all the time both via e-mail and from those who actually hear my own Lencos here in my area. The idler-wheel drives, once properly set-up, show just how bad belt-drive (and DD) speed stability really is, which is difficult to accept due to endless oceans of ink (and bytes) devoted to their "superior" speed stability measurements. Evidently, the tests devised to measure speed stability were in fact designed to support these claims, like loaded dice.

The CLD plinths, which are dead neutral and I believe superior when made up of humble birch-ply/MDF, absorb and kill off noise (ESPECIALLY when Direct Coupling is implemented), and the more the mass, the more effective it is. The massive CLD plinths also ensure more and more stable platforms, which in turn improves speed stability even further.

As I had posted long ago in the very beginning of the original thread, and as posted under my "system": "We know things now they didn't know when they were manufacturing idler-wheel 'tables. We can now realize their potential. Due to the high rotational speed of these motors, great relative mass and so high torque, no expensive solutions need be made to address the weak motors now used in high-end decks. The platters on the Lencos weigh about 8-10 pounds, with much of the mass concentrated on the periphery: the old boys understood flywheel effect to ensure stable speed. The Lenco platter is a single cast piece, of a zinc alloy of some sort, very inert for a metal, and then machined and hand-balanced in a lab. No ringing two-piece platter problems to overcome. Even the motor is hand-balanced in a lab, and weighs something like 3-4 pounds, and runs silently on its lubricated bearings. Think of it: a high-torque motor spinning at well over 1500 RPMs (compared to a belt-drive motor's average 150-300) which pretty well wipes out speed variations by itself. The idler wheel contacts the motor spindle directly, while contacting the platter directly on its other side, thus transmitting most/all of that torque without any belt stretching. Many high-end decks offer thread belts which don't stretch, thus giving an improvement in sound. The Lenco does the same with its wheel. But the platter is also a flywheel, and so evens out whatever speed variations there may be in the motor. It's a closed system (motor-plattter, platter-motor) and speed variations brought on by groove modulations don't stand a chance in this rig, and it is clearly audible. The trick is that big, solid plinth you build at Home Depot."

Believe your ears: idler-wheel drive is THE superior drive system currently available to us, and provides de facto PROOF (auditioning and comparisons) the other systems do not achieve the speed stability they claim to do. Implementation and understanding (and the fine details) is the key to unlocking their full potential.

Jean, what about my comment that vibration is the other killer of turntable sound quality, aside from variations in the speed of rotation? I used to be able to FEEL the motor vibration in my old Rek-O-Kut (and I confess I never did a thing to tune or even lubricate the motor). I think its plausible that belt drive turntables came to dominate partly because they introduced less vibration where the stylus meets the grooves, especially after they began to be designed with the motor separated and isolated from the body of the table itself. It seems to me that this explains why the vibration-killing techniques you've been developing - massive multi-layer plinths, direct coupling, glass-reinforcing, motor tuning, etc. - are what have allowed the inherently superior speed stability of idler wheel drive systems to come through and Crush the Belt Drives. (I realize that saying belt drive systems may have been superior in any way is asking for it! But one of the many things I've liked about this thread is that it's non-ideological. The enthusiasm for discovering how good Lencos and other idler wheel drive machines can sound has been based on HOW GOOD THEY SOUND, not on an ideological belief in their inherent superiority in every respect.)
Bob