Technics SL-1200MKII and AT-440MLa, very good

I've also got a thread running here...
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1173920079&openmine&zzPerfectionist&4&5#Perfectionist

Trying to narrow my choices.

To Perfectionist: I just got a Technics SL1210 M5G (Grandmaster), and also got a Shure M97xE because of all the buzz. I also had an Ortofon OMP 10 lying around, so got a second headshell and 1/2" cart adapter. I much prefer the Ortofon. It has about as much slam, but is smoother through the midrange, has more inner detail, and just "feels" better when I listen with it. The Shure by comparison gets congested and hollow-sounding in the midrange when things get busy (i.e., crescendos bringing in lots of instruments/voices).

Also, this humble rig has had no trouble smoking the CD/SACD players I have in the house. It's certainly as dynamic, bass is fuller, and the timbres are much better fleshed out. I have an Amber 17 preamp, and maybe it's spoiling me. If you're plugging into a phono section in a receiver, that may be why you're underwhelmed.

Also, experiment with the Shure--try it with the damper brush up and down, and with different tracking forces. I also tried it with both the extra headshell weight and the extra tonearm counterweight to increase tonearm mass. That seemed to open up some detail, but I still prefer the Ortofon w/o the extra weight.

Well, my thread referenced above was deleted for some reason. Asked Agon staff why, no reply. So I'm going to post here since this seems to be an open forum for the SL-12x0. I've installed an AT440MLa and it is much better, IMO. It is more lively and upbeat with better PRaT. The highs are also much more extended. The build quality and overall design of the Shure is very nice at it's pricepoint, the AT is cheap looking in comparison, IMO. But it's the sound that matters. One thing that really irritates me about the AT is they didn't even scribe a line in the top of it to line up the needle for easier queing. Blackmongoose, I did experiment with the brush, tracking force, and VTA on the Shure, nothing seemed to help.

I've been playing around with the VTA on the AT, and I discovered a problem with my brand new TT. I could barely raise the VTA above 4mm, even with two hands and four fingers. WTF? Agon member Cytocycle suggested that perhaps the tonearm cables were too tight. Called Kevin at KAB and got his blessing to flip table, remove base and cable clamp for tonearm cables. Sure enough, the cable's were clamped in the wrong position, not enough slack, causing the VTA adjustment to bind. I repositioned clamp and can now freely move VTA from 1-6mm.

Anyway, I like the AT much better than the Shure (for sale) for shure (hehe), but it still isn't on par with digital in this system. And it's not even in the same league with the Naim setup in my main rig. I prolly really need to do a phono pre. I may try to pick up a used Gram amp 2 here on Agon. I just don't want to sink too much money into this rig.

Perfectionist sez: " I prolly really need to do a phono pre. I may try to pick up a used Gram amp 2 here on Agon. I just don't want to sink too much money into this rig."
My SL1210 is up against stiffer competition from the CD player. I have a recent Sony ES SACD/CD carousel which totally smoked the 1998 CEC single-play CD player that it replaced. Yet the TT rig bests the new Sony CD player in musicality, rhythm, bass, fleshing out the timbres, and subjective emotional involvement. So if an older Kenwood changer isn't beating your SL1200, it may be the phono section.

For $249, you could get a Bellari VP 129, which is a tubed MM phono stage. It also has Michael Fremer's enthusiastic recommendation and has a Stereophile Class B rating--right in there with the $1500 phono stages. For $150 the Parasound ZPhono and NAD stages come well recommended, but not as highly as the Bellari.

Has anybody else noticed that 3 carts recommended for the SL 1200, especially for opening up the soundstage--the AT-440 and the Denon 110 or 160--all have nude square stylii?