tubes and analog

Dear Raul,

When you wrote:

and I'm talking of those tube problems only because Mr. Atmasphere " thinks " that he lives in an " island " where only exist TUBES and where the other technologies are not " up to the task ".

Tube problems my dear Raul are a consequence of bad design and not the nature of tubes.

As far as reliability is concerned, apart from a certain manufacturer in Ralph's home state (hint: it's not Atmasphere, but does begin with the letter "A"), all of my tube gear has been more reliable than my s-s gear.

You may argue about sonics, but tubes have it all over s-s in terms of simplicity, reliability, field serviceability, and immunity from voltage spikes.

As you know all too well, we are all in this business because we love it. Ralph, Jim, you and I don't make design decisions based on the prompting of our corporate accountants, but rather our chosen path is fueled by our passions.

You endorse your design because you love it - as do Ralph, Jim, and I.

Now, I won't deny that some behavior becomes pathological over time, but I contend that we'd be nuts to be in this business if we didn't love it. There are easier ways to pay the mortgage.

We have all in our own way landed on our own island paradise, and I consider it disingenuous of you to single Ralph (Atmasphere) out in this discussion.

As has been pointed out on more than one occasion, the number of companies manufacturing tube gear is growing and not shrinking. This is quite amazing when you take into consideration the marketing blitz from the large corporations.

The marketplace is speaking. Is the marketplace mad?

Cheers,
Thom @ Galibier

The marketplace is speaking. Is the marketplace mad?

Like I said, I am not against tubes but am against using them to mask system anomalies. I think a large portion of tube equipment sales are due to this unfortunate latter use. My system is 100% solid state/monoblock based and my main amps have the 'to die for' midrange and holographic presentation of tubes along with the beef and sonic neutrality of solid state. The subwoofer amps deliver globs of highly controlled current at a very high speed.

My main amps

My subwoofer amps

But that's just me...

At any rate, digital is making great strides and Dan Wright replaced his Atma Sphere amps for Channel Islands digital monoblocks. Hey, it's the 21st century!

***

Kudos to Dr. Geddes but he has apparently rediscovered what has been the accepted wisdom in audio for probably more than 20 years. The only way to account for the fact that many folks prefer tube preamps and amplifiers despite the fact that they typically have higher measured distortion than SS devises is to posit Dr. Geddes conclusions, and many others have studied this phenomenon and no doubt also presented findings to the AES and like groups. IMO, one of the reasons why SET amplifiers have such a devoted following is that these devices tend to have a very low distortion at low power levels which increases pretty linearly with increasing power demands. PP amps, on the other hand, tend to have higher distortion at the lowest power levels, near the cross-over point, than they do further up the scale.

As far as Atma-sphere amplifiers damaging a speaker, I think it's highly unlikely to occur even if every single output tube were to go sour simultaneously. What is being said, Raul, is that the amp won't damage a speaker, not merely that it will not damage itself. I have a pair of Atmas with an aging output tube set. Consequently, once in a while one of the fuses on the output tubes will blow due to the tube arcing over (each tube is separately fused). This results in a barely perceptible decrease in power and decrease in the wonderfulness of the sound, but not even a hint of anything that could possibly damage a speaker, i.e., no pops, bleeps, ticks, screeches, etc. Nada. So, while I don't mean to infer that you, Raul, are being untruthful, I do think that whatever happened during that listening session to damage the speaker did not occur directly as a result of the amplifier malfunctioning. Something else was going on.

>>I'm glad Hagtech pulled out just in time<<

Oh, sorry, I've been really busy.

>>very old myths<<

My apologies for leaving out some crucial details in my earlier posts. I jumped onto this thread in defense of tubes, but was speaking from a device standpoint. That is, I was not arguing which type of amplifier was best, tube or transistor, but rather from a device standpoint. And with that in mind, my very offensive "blanket statement" that triodes are inherently more linear than transistors as devices still rings true. I'm sorry if that bothers anyone, but it's a matter of physics. And I can't change that. Neither can you.

Now which sounds better? Well, that's up to the listener. Each device and topology has advantages and disadvantages. We just do our best in each design given these certain limitations. In that respect, I can speak with a smidgen of authority as I have designed phonostages with triodes, opamps, and JFETs, in both balanced and single-ended configurations.

Having said that, the inherent linearity advantage of triodes merely allows a higher potential for sonics in an amplifier. Basically, they have a head start.

>>Tube problems my dear Raul are a consequence of bad design<<

I have to agree with both of you here. However, from a device and physics viewpoint, Raul stands on higher ground. Solid state electronics do indeed have a potential* reliability advantage.

(*This does not apply to missile defense radars or radio station transmitters).

jh

OK maybe Atma's comments come off a bit strong, but I recently put into service an older pair of Atma-sphere MA-1's I had stopped using when I lost of bunch of output tubes. I had gone over to an excellent sounding SS modified integrated, that honestly was the most revealing, fully fleshed out and non SS sounding amp I have ever heard (Ps Audio GCC series amp with full ICE Underwood Mod- their excellence is backed up by 10audio's review.)

I retubed the MA1's thinking I should listen to them on my new speakers just for kicks, then sell them. Even though they are older models - several cuircut enhancements behind current refinements, the amps sounded so much better and had more detail than the SS. It was like going from viewing excelllent hi-res 2D image on the SS to a viewing a 3D holograph with the Atma's. A very simple instrument - a kazoo on LP played by Sonny Boy Williamson, clued me into what was happening.

On the SS the instrument was plain to hear in all it's glory, but with the Atma's there was suddenly a man playing an instrument, the skin of the kazoo resonating as a seperate event from the body sound. There were more dimensions to hear, more facets, and being such a simple instrument I believe made it easier to hear and remember the sound, as opposed to a more complex instrument, like a violin. It was quite telling.

And the speaker's impedance isn't even ideal for an OTL's range, being 4 ohms.

I don't know if all tube products possess this level of quality, but I certainly can say that Atma-sphere's do.