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Mft 's suggested VTF: Follow or not to follow???

Dear all,
I would like to seek your advice on this issue: Should we or should we not always follow the manufacturer's suggested VTF???

I've been dealing with female vocal's sibilance since like forever and NOTHING seems to help totally eliminate the phenomenon of sibilance pulls to the left channel !!! I have read numorous posts and try them all without achieving the level of satisfaction i expect.

I ran though this problem with an Avid Acutus-Origin Live Conqueror tonearm - Koetsu Urushi, SME 20/2 - SME VI.Vi - Lyra Helikon - Project Perspective - Sumiko Blackbird on discs like Holly Cole " Dont Smoke In Bed", Diana Krall " From this moment on"...(All of them are Classic Records). Using Feikert Protractor AND Wally's universal tractors (have settings for most of popular arms), I can achieve rock solid imaging, huge soundstage and make the speakers totally disappear with LP playing, EXCEPT making that siblance disappear ! With other discs like Classical, Jazz, 60s-70s-80s-90s pop/rock, I DO NOT detect (or extremely rare) distortion/mistracking. ONLY Female vocals, especially discs from Classic Records.

I'm very careful and patient in setting up turntables, also played around with VTF, VTA, Azimuth...etc..etc but i cannot get rid of that annoying sibliance. On some discs, that pull-to-left-channel never seems to happen, but it always happens to some degree in Classic Records' female vocals. Until now, i'm so frustrated I dont know which to assump: my setup or those discs??? Would greatly appreciate if someone can point me to some directions.

(I have the tendency to refuse in believing that Classic Record's mastering-cutting head is cutting these bad sibilance in discs like this..hm..)

now, a question also emerges during my LONG setting-up sessions:
ALL of the cartridges-arms-tables combo that i have tried (listed above)only pass 2nd track and NEVER get passed the 3rd Anti-skating track on Hi Fi+ Test record (the 300hz, 14dB). With all other parameters (VTA, VTF, Alignment, Azimuth..) carefully checked, IF i use more VTF (up to 2.1-2.2gr for Lyra Helikon, 2.3-2.4gr. for Blackbird), the cartridges tracks a bit better.

So..Should i use the VTF which helps the catridges track better or just stick with what the manufacturer suggested VTF and forget about the HiFi+ test record? My concern is that those sibilances are mistrakings, and that will ruin my records ( i care more about records than cartridges !!)

PS. Even with the cartridges tracking better, the sibilance issue doesnt improve much.
Thanks in advance.
jaytea
fosse
47 posts
 
Does loading make any difference? A friend of mine usually load down quite heavily on his Steelhead.

I have the Holy Cole record you talk about and will check it out on my new rig. I remember I had some trouble with it on mye Orbe/Mørch/Benz combo. Back then sibilants almost got me quitting vinyl, seriously, I can't live with it, it ruins the illusion. But I got a new life with the combo I have today. I don't think player/arm/cartridge is your problem, but I do understand your frustration very well.

André
buffyjames
38 posts
 
Here's something to ponder. Your old records were recorded/mastered on older tube gear with rolled off highs. The modern record has frequencies very much higher. Could it be that your left tweeter is exhibiting erratic behavior at those higher sounds coming from either the corssover, the tweeter itself, or a loose grill, surround, etc. I'm using a Benz Ebony and have no such problems with siblents as you describe on the Holly Cole, or any other record
audiofeil
4,011 posts
 
Jaybo got it right.

Most Classic Records just plain suck.
dougdeacon
3,338 posts
 
The thing is that i need a guideline, a startpoint in order to choose the right anti-skating for my turntable-arm-cartridge setup.
I gave you that. The right startpoint is ZERO antiskate.

Given that different cartridge's stylus profiles, different types of vinyl require different amount of anti-skating force, i think that using a real-life playing condition (test record) to set anti-skating might be better/more correctly than the general, theoretical method which set anti-skating force relatively to just tracking force.
Fully agree, with one correction. Your tonearm manufacturer has no idea what cartridge you're using or what record you're playing. So setting to some theoretical number is just that, theoretical.

But as I pointed out above, the HFN&RR "test" record is NOT a "real-life playing condition". Its frequency mix is not music, its so-called antiskate tracks are all on inner grooves and, most important, its amplitudes are WILDLY unrealistic.

Throw that record away. Learn to trust your ears while listening to what you bought all this gear for.

Doug

P.S. Everything you say keeps pointing to one thing, lousy LP's. I tend to agree with Jaybo and Audiofeil.
jaytea OP
78 posts
 
Hello all,
I'm extremely happy to inform you that i have solved the sibilance & tracking problem that i recently encountered in my system.

The thing was that i had been using the Loefgren alignment for most of my turntables (since this is recommended for modern records that have the modulated grooves (musical signal) no less than 65-66mm from the center of the record, as stated by Mr. Wally Malewick). When i encountered the sibilance & tracking error problem, i tried many different suggestions from members from audioasylum and audiogon with little success, I got very frustrated and i decided to re-align my setup again. This time, i took time to read the manual of the tonearm i am using (SME IV.Vi) very carefully. I discovered that i have overlooked the SME arm's nullpoints, which coincide with the Baerwald alignment's nullpoints !!! (Stupid me). I decided to try this alignment since it makes more sense on the SME tonearm.

After carefully seting up my tonearm this time using the Baerwald method, the tonearm/cartridge now sounds much cleaner with less, tighter and cleaner sibilance and distortion. The sound now is more natural than before!

Now, I am not very sure if those two alignment methods could be used interchangeably on different tonearms, but if the tonearm manual specifies the nullpoints, better choose the alignment scheme that is closest to ur tonearm geometry. Given that those two methods only result in addressing the tracking error differently, i made an assumption that I could just pick either one and it just did not work that way, at least for me.

I also tried to use the WallySkater to set the anti-skating and it is almost identical to what is suggested by SME 's manual. As Doug pointed out, the HiFiNews test record suggest too much anti-skating (Thanks, Doug).

I'd like to thank all and everyone of you who have contributed to this post to help me solve this problem. I really appreciate all of your inputs.

Best regards.
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