New Teres Direct Drive Motor Available as Option

Willster, I think I see what you're getting at and your experience through your friend has obviously given you a perception of Teres which i think is in the minority of experiences here and in general. Which is not to say you're wrong at all I just wanted to make the comment (btw, I've never heard any Teres gear) that for some people, I'm thinking about myself here; the development by people like Chris Brady of motors and motor controllers is a real asset to TT playback. Not just for his tables but for 'upgrading' otherwise fine TT's, vintage included, where the motor & PS are perhaps a weakness or getting a bit long in the tooth and reliability may soon be an issue.
If the cartridge provides half the analog waveform and the TT pitch/timing the other half. Then if one can afford it and the improvement is valuable enough, $1600 is well worth it imho. Of course as you say an audition is best advised.
FWIW, I did consider/look at the Teres motor but decided instead to buy something else. I mention that only because the money is about the same which I didn't consider unreasonable.

Hi Willster. I'm interested in knowing more about your friend's bearing. You said the bearing was worn upon disassembling in order to move it to another base. You do not say what part was worn. Do you know? How old was it? What oil was used? What platter did it have? Was it a kit or a specific Teres model? What did your friend's machinist come up with to better it? i.e. what improvement did he make? I note that you did not say the bearing was disassembled because it was noisy so he must have been happy to go to all the effort of making a new base until he found this problem. In what way did he feel it was noisy?

A lot of questions I know but a simple statement round here can cause people to wonder :-)

cheers,

Stephen

Willster raises some interesting questions. Chris has already discussed the DIY comment, which no longer applies to a Teres. Here's my take on some of his other points/questions.

Chris would never maintain his judgement is infallible, but his designs are proceeding forward on a progressive and logical path. He values owner input so he offered Tim, me and others a trial period for the Verus. We like our tables not because everything Chris does is perfect, but because his support is generously offered and upgrades - some expensive, some not - are readily forthcoming.

Chris once mailed me a better performing drive belt out of the blue. No charge. No demands. Just wanted us to hear it. This led us to experiment with multiple drive belts, a lively interchange of emails and better performance for all Teres owners. It may even have encouraged Chris's interest in new drive technologies, which led to the Certus and now the Verus. Playing some small part in the ongoing developments of an already excellent product line is FUN.

VERUS - VALUE OR OVERPRICED?
To get anywhere close to Teres-level performance from some belt drive tables (to pick one example) the owner has to add both a SAMA ($400) and an SDS ($1,000). Those options do nothing more than a stock Teres (or Galibier, or Redpoint) motor and controller. This manufacturer sells you motors that need isolation from the platter and controllers that don't keep even speed. Then they sell you upgrades to fix them. That, IMO, is a better example of poor value.

I know a Clearaudio Master Ref owner who dumped his three stock motors in favor of one retrofitted Teres motor/controller unit, with improved results. So have several Platine Verdier owners. Teres motors and controllers routinely improve the performance of competitors' $10-25K tables. How much more value can you get from one little company?

Well, maybe Chris has a new answer. The Verus upgrade will cost me less than VPI's, but I get a completely new motor design purposely optimized for LP playback and a radically different (and reportedly superior) platter/motor linkage. Oh, and I get a no risk trial. Sounds like value to me.

BEARING WEAR
The bearing wear Willster's friend experienced probably resulted from one of Chris's less successful early experiments, of which we were also participants (or victims, if you insist). For a time Chris was supplying brass ball bearings. Our 320 came with one. Paul (a metallurgist) predicted it wouldn't work in this application - and it didn't. The ball deteriorated quickly and bearing wear was both audible and visible.

To his credit, CB replaced our entire bearing assembly. He now supplies a durable stainless steel ball. We've been using that for several years with no audible problems. Last time we pulled it for inspection there were no visible problems either.

TRY B4 U BUY
As Tim is, so are we going to try the Verus in our system before committing to it. If it sounds better we'll buy it. If not, back it goes.

Even a non-Teres owner wanting to try a Verus on some other table would be taking virtually no risk. Let's remember Chris's amazing warranty, which precious few manufacturers would dare to offer. To quote the website, "If you are unhappy FOR ANY REASON with a Teres purchase you are entitled to return it for a full refund at any time." (My emphasis.) That applies to ANY purchaser of ANY Teres product, including Verus motors for use on non-Teres tables. Chris has never failed to stand behind any product 100%. Try telling another equipment manufacturer you just don't like your new Super XXX gizmo and want a full refund. Good luck.

ESCALATING ENTRY COSTS
I agree with Willster, it's regrettable that Teres no longer offers easily affordable/entry-level tables. It's not that prices have gone up so much, it's that less costly models (135, 150, 155, 165, 245) have been dropped while new, top performing models have been added. It's as if Toyota stopped making Corollas, and then Camry's, in order to sell only Lexuses. Nothing wrong with a Lexus, but...

It is difficult for a small manufacturer to support a wide range of models made in tiny production runs. Toyota can afford to sell Corollas at slim margins because they make and sell them by the millions. Everything becomes a LOT harder when you're talking monthly unit sales in the single digits. I give Galibier great credit for trying to serve this market with the new Serac. More than that, I've given any number of people a recommendation to try it. But look how long it's taken Thom to achieve a marketable, high quality product at a limited price point. He finalized the design nearly a year ago and he STILL can't get some components made to Galibier BQ standards. His frustration level must be even higher than the expectations of his lengthy waiting list. Top quality + short production run + low cost = a sourcing challenge that's very tough to meet.

My $.02, fire away.
Doug

I must agree with Willster (to some extent)

While Teres has by far the most liberal return policy I have seen, the long delay in largely negates it.

Had I the opportunity to audition, I would considered Teres when I replaced my table earlier this year. However, having to pay my $10K and than wait 6 to 12 months only to find I dislike the table was not a risk I was willing to take. If I invest $10K for 6 to 12 months, getting my money back is nothing other than a loss. For the risk and time elapsed, I would want some return on my investment.

Disclaimer: Yes, I am a banker and you can be quite sure my customers pay (a lot) for credit

That said, from what I read Teres is a very reputable company that produce a very high quality product. I may potentially become a client if given the opportunity to audition.

Regards
Paul

Pauly- I would strongly recommend jumping on the next used/demo Teres that shows up here. It does happen from time to time. At a discounted price, there is virtually no risk. Also, I guess one way to look at the "investment" end of it that you talked/balked about is this way. If the table you are interested in provides an equivalent audio experience that is 15% higher than what you could get for the same price elsewheres, and if it requires you to pay up front and get delivery 1 year later, (at no risk, see the no questions asked return policy) then you have gotten a 15% return on a one year term investment with no risk. How much are 1 year CDs (no not the silver disks!!) at your bank paying this year? If its 15%, please provide your swift #s so I can wire you some money ;~) Seriously, dealing with boutique manufacturers has some pluses and some minuses. The pluses generally tend to be on the performance side, the minuses tend to be on the convenience and risk side. Here, I think its mostly on the convenience side. AND you get the satisfaction of a handmade product and the ability to deal directly with the builder.

I'm not trying to start a war here and yes I have a Teres TT (bought used; I only had to wait 1 week for mine (thanks Nick)! But its hard to use steely-eyed banker logic to evaluate a product that contributes to such an emotional experience as music (live or recorded, if its not evoking an emotional response, why listen?)