$75 Thorens vs. $2K+ Michell...is this possible?

I have owned a new VPI Scout with a Benz Glider M2 cartridge for about 3 months. Before that, I owned a Thorens TD-125 MK2 for about 2 years. The performance level of the Scout is very high and I feel that it can do just about anything. I never have problems with it as you desicribed with your Michell. My Thorens performance level was almost up to the level of the VPI, but not quite. I had a cheaper cart on the Thorens (Ortofon X5, I believe). It sounded very good for its price range, but there was little magic compared to the VPI and the Thorens would get a little confused on certain passages, where the VPI/Benz does not.

I believe that your Michell is not set up properly since you describe distortion in certain dynamic passages. Based on my experience with my Thorens and VPI, I believe that your Thorens could nearly approach or even match the performance level of your Michell. It will take a lot of work to get the Thorens refurbished and tuned, and match a correct cartridge to whatever arm you go with.

I have also found that my VPI and Benz Glider play whatever is on the record. If it is a rather pedestrian recording with lazy engineering, then it sounds like a rather average recording. This of course means the playback will have little, if any, vinyl 'magic'. However, if it is a great recording, then it is marvelous. Not all your records will sound great on a good table.

As others have pointed out, you're comparing apples and oranges. Unless you put the same cartridge on each rig you'll have no idea what the inherent qualities of the two rigs actually are.

Sometimes my table sounds smothered or rolled off in the highs,

And probably always will with a Glider on it. Smoothed, gentled, laid back, rolled off highs. Sounds like every Glider I've heard, on any rig.

...and sometimes I hear what I can best describe as noise/static/distortion on vocals when they get loud.

STOP playing those records until you solve this problem. If your stylus is mistracking your vinyl is being permanently damaged.

There are several possible causes of this noise and they've been discussed here many times. Twice within the last week on two thread I remember. Do a little searching/reading/research.

Doug

Wow, you must have a terrible set-up on the Michell. I'm not saying that the Michell is the best deck on the planet, but it is capable of very high performance when set up properly in a decent system.

In fact, my experience has been the exact opposite of yours. I had been playing around with some lesser turntables, a vintage AR XB with a Profile II arm, and a BIX with a stock Rega RB250. The AR had a nice, mellow, well-balanced sound, but it lacked the expansive soundstage, the wide dynamic contrasts, and the precise imaging and detailing of the Michell. What arm is on your Michell, anyway???

The BIX was a step closer to the Michell, but not quite there and it had issues with inconsistent speed all the time.

If your Michell sounds as you've described then there's no way that it's working right or set up properly. Years ago, I owned a VPI Aries with a JMW 10 arm and the extra flywheel and PLC. I was never satisfied with that deck and was much happier when I moved to a Michell Gyro SE II with an OL-modded RB250, which seemed more musical and better balanced.

Presently, I own a Michell Orbe SE and the Tecnodec and I have to tell you... They both KICK ASS!!!

I'm sure the Thorens is a decent sounding deck, but I highly doubt it comes close to the Michells in terms of bass reproduction, expansive soundstaging, and overall precision and detailing.

I've never used the Glider, but I know it's supposed to be a very good cartridge. I'd be willing to bet that my Tecnodec with the bottom of the line Benz MC20E-L (low output model) will stomp that Thorens combo into the ground, in convincing fashion (we won't even think about a comparison to the Orbe).

But this is the thing with analog turntables: setup is EVERYTHING. If you're not competent to do a proper set up, find someone who can help you. You haven't even scratched the surface of that Michell's potential...

there you have it gentlemen....the concensus is 'spending 2000 dollars beats spending 75'. the real question is...does spending 3200 dollars pay bigger dividends then receiving 15 dollars? after its fully broken in of course.

Your question gets into one of the big "fights" in audio—"New is Better" vs. "Vintage is Better." I don't feel like dealing with that particular argument today—I have enough stress in my life at the moment as it is. However, in my own experience, I have noticed that some vintage equipment will perform better (by my standards, at least) than some newer equipment.

That said, it's a given that the two turntables will have a different sound. The design philosophies vary.

The cartridges will also have a big impact. In this case, you have two different cartridge companies AND two different technologies employed. It's possible that you might like the Technodec better if you had a different cartridge.

You might be interested in an article on the Thorends TD 150 & TD 160 that is on the Hi Fi World website. (http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/oldeworldehtml/thorenstd150.html). This article includes one line that shows you aren't crazy: "These decks offer a great deal for very little. Some friends of mine, who owned a Gyrodec, recently set up a TDl 60 as an interim measure while a new arm was fitted to the Michell. Result? The Thorens stayed and the Gyrodec was passed on - they realIy are that good." Note that the Gyrodec was also made by Michell.