Subwoofer: should we even use them at all?

I have been using a sub for 20 years...and over that time have joyed getting a more and more seamless integration. the combination of my main speakers being upgraded to the point where the sub is now only playing 40hz and below plus the improved speed, quality of subs and their crossover software has made it a joy for me. The ambience, foundation deep underneath orchestral, live performances as well deep house/electronic is wonderful. Good luck. Good set up is a must...but for me, I will never take mine out. And more owners I know who have my speakers (Wilson X1/Grand Slamm) or the Alexandria's use them with subs than those owners I know who don't.

In the past we did filter them till max 35-60. These days this part has changed a lot. After I got the attention to test it till 120 hz. I test it for the first time. When you use a subwoofer like mine ( low freq. unit is very fast and light ( ceramics) )you can use it a lot further.

I got even better results using it higher. Low freq. become touchable above 80hz. These days I use it till 140 hz. This gives the best endresults I even heard with subwoofers in general. Playing stereo voices and instruments also become more stable and physical.

This is possible cause of the accuracy of the measurement Audyssey Pro gave. And the use of a very thick Wild Dog pure silver subcable.

At the show were I was in 2013, people said: but your subwoofer is out. Many people were not familiar with this kind of integration.

Going back to the past were we sold most of the time REL subwoofers even with more expensive loudsprekers. It is a new world and a much higher level of integration.

I have a subwoofer, which I use for HT purposes. I have played with several subwoofers quite a few times over the last few decades, but I never could get one to blend seamlessly into a stereo system for music purposes. I have heard a couple of systems that have, but I have heard many more systems that have failed, but the owner does not know it. For me, I will leave the integrating of bass management to the seasoned speaker designer, and buy full range speakers, like your PO's, for music.

What JM said. Subs rarely sound right and you are much better off with a well designed full range speaker......if possible. I have tried perhaps a dozen and did everything known to man to blend them in, but in the end they hurt the music more than helped it.

I am sure it is possible to help the music more than hurt it, but that seems out of reach based on my experience anyway.

"What JM said. Subs rarely sound right and you are much better off with a well designed full range speaker"

These words I said for a long time as well. I never thought that I could be statified and even owning a subwoofer for stereo use.

So what did change my opinion?

When I did test subwoofers in all those years ( 16 years of time) I was often not satisfied with the integration. There were Always music numbers were you could hear that the timing was not perfect. Everywhere I came ( shows and clients) I heard the same limitations. For a perfectionist there is no room for this. Why? Because I get irritated by every single limitation. It is Always my way of working to eliminate every single limitation in a set.

When I bought the Monitor Audio PLW-15 I understand directly that the response is a lot faster than most other subwoofer. The PLW-15 is a very difficult subwoofer to control.

Audyssey did solve the control problems I had with the PLW-15. You can have a very fast subwoofer, but this is no garantee for success.

Audyssey Pro gave me the freedom to control and make it fully integrated with the speakers. This is what I call stealth integration.

Purist Powercable and the new Audioquest Wild Dog pure silver subcable puts it even to a higher level.

But the remarks to use it to a higher freq. level did change it also a lot. These days I use it from 16hz till 140 hz. Blending goes to a new level. You need to hear it before you can believe it.

I had a few surround specialists and also different clients with highend sets who are amazed by the level of integration.

When I put it off you loose it all. When you use it till 140 hz the subwoofers has a much more important part in the overall sound.

I understand the thoughts of most people overhere about integration. But now stealth inegration is possible.

It is not easy to create, it did cost me many tests, time and thinking to create it. But now it is here. A few people in the audio business say; you have to do something with it. You have to let it hear to other people. I am thinking about a way to make it known.