Subwoofer: should we even use them at all?

Hi Martykl,

Thanks for another very detailed post. A question for your advice:

- I have Wilson X1s and am contemplating using the Wilson Active Crossover to cut them off below 38hz (as recommended by David Wilson)...and have the Active Crossover send a properly adjusted sub-38hz signal to my Velodyne DD18.

- Currently I run the X1s full range with a 2nd IC from my preamp to the Velodyne DD18

- I'd love to get a Thor...but that is serious money for a sub! (not to mention amp, cables, etc)

- I am told to expect a very significant improvement in the effortless of the X1s even with such a seemingly subtle change

(I use a Gryphon Colosseum amp to drive the X1s).

I have found tremendous improvement thru vibration isolation of my X1s (Ultra 5s, some mass damping of the upper modules)...and have been told that Actively crossing them over may even produce a greater improvement through even further reducing distortion from thermal, mechanical and cone excursion associated with these toughest/lowest frequencies.

Assuming it is professionally set up by the Wilson dealer who carefully adjusts the Active Crossover (crossover frequency, rolloff, phase, etc) including the sub38hz-signal to send to the Velodyne...what do you think? Worth a try?

I am told it is a great bang for buck given its "only" a Wilson Crossover and one extra IC.

WHAT KINDS OF IMPROVEMENTS WOULD YOU EXPECT ME TO HEAR (IF ANY?) Thanks for your advice!

A source has a very big influence on a subwoofer. For example we did a test between the Olive 06HD and the Wadia 7Si. The Olive had more controle and more layers in the lowest freq. When a source is better in timing and has better dynamics a subwoofer will sound a lot different.

I have tested many powercables on subwoofers. This is the same story. With a better awg you will hear the difference. But when you use a sub from 16hz till 140hz, you even need other qualities in a powercable.

I got the best result sofar with Purist Audio powercables. Also from 80-140hz they work better than most others do.

The interconnect you use for your cable also makes a big difference. I tested many in 16 years of time. The one I own now: Audioquest Wild Dog pure silver subwoofer cable even gives you a new level in drive and integration.

All other cables I have tested don't even come close. Silver also works extreme well in speed, drive and control.

martykl, appreciate your contribution and i think everyone benefits from it--too many people turn up their noses at subs, incorrectly. i can see your points and find truth in them in certain applications while not changing my mind (though mine are also incorrect in select applications too).

agreed that the port does do as you describe, but the quick rolloff in turn supports mine. 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. a port is a bass bump at a given freq, and the room contributes enough of those without adding more via the port. and yes, some ported subs can sound great (wilson) without the huffing, i'm just offering a 'more likely to succeed' path, and a cheaper ported sub is less likely to succeed than a sealed sub for the same $. (further, if your mains have ports but your subs don't, you will need a darn good bass-optimization feature as you need it to address both room nodes and main-generated port nodes---the JLs ARO feature will not do this, FWIW).

if you have a preamp that can filter HP v LP or accommodate temporal shifts by delaying signal to mains / sub, great (as you describe) and its likely a benefit vs alt setups. but, if you have a pre like mine (ARC Ref 5se) and most other uber products which have no such features, you're not going to dump a great pre to move backwards to a good one in order to gain the features; furthermore, the notion of adding an outboard x-over (or using the half-assed one in the sub) is going to compromise the mids / highs---bad parts, bad results. one earlier poster mentioned his einstein preamp (great pre btw, spartan in its features), and folks w/ products like that are quite particular to transparency loss. running their mains full range and integrating a sub as i advocate is the likely best choice.

(of course, using an x-over and its resultant loss in transparency may be offset by the opp to switch amps to a lowered power, better sounding choice that doesn't have to contend w/ sub-80hz bass. YMMV).

room correction above 80hz is an entirely separate matter for room acoustics, not subwoofer bass management IMO. both are required in high end systems. (well, addressing room acoustics is ALWAYS required).

if nothing else, i hope folks realize that if their first sub integration doesn't work, think about what factors you've yet to try, as it can work exceptionally well if done right...i offered my original post as a most-likely-to-succeed route, but not the only route possible.

Hi Bo1972,

I am also a big fan of PAD cables and use their 25th Ann to Canorus across the board, with 2 exceptions: my Gryphon Colosseum was sold (2nd hand) to me with its own Gryphon Ref cable; and my Sub...after using PAD Canorus/Dominus for years...I now use Sablon Audio Quantum Gran Corona which is the only cable I have found I prefer to the mighty PADs. FWIW...I could hardly complain about the PAD with my Velodyne...so I agree with you. But I was pleasantly surprised by Mark Coles great designs with the SA QGC cable (which I thought did have some silver in it?)

Dear Lloydelee,

which subwoofercable do you use?