Subwoofer: should we even use them at all?

Hi Bo1972,

I am also a big fan of PAD cables and use their 25th Ann to Canorus across the board, with 2 exceptions: my Gryphon Colosseum was sold (2nd hand) to me with its own Gryphon Ref cable; and my Sub...after using PAD Canorus/Dominus for years...I now use Sablon Audio Quantum Gran Corona which is the only cable I have found I prefer to the mighty PADs. FWIW...I could hardly complain about the PAD with my Velodyne...so I agree with you. But I was pleasantly surprised by Mark Coles great designs with the SA QGC cable (which I thought did have some silver in it?)

Dear Lloydelee,

which subwoofercable do you use?

Lloyd,

The first question in my mind re: actively low cutting your main speaker at 38hz is: What's your program material?

If this is a music-centric system, I'd only point out that very few recordings in my collection have much signal below 38hz. We're talking about a couple of keys on a piano, the longest pipe on an organ, and a couple of notes on the electric bass, for the most part. It's pretty rare that these are present on a recording so the low-cut isn't really doing much to lighten the load on your X-1s 99+% of the time.

Obviously movie soundtracks are another story, but your set-up appears to be 2 channel, so I'm guessing that it's music based. I personally don't see a ton of benefit in crossing a sub in so low on a music system, but many other knowledgeable folks (including, evidently David Wilson) disagree with me on that one.

Rhyno,

I was just trying to clarify a few points that you made in a little different way, because they seemed to me to be presented in the way JL deems best to promote their (admittedly excellent) products. I hope I made clear that I wasn't really taking much issue with the main points in your post, more clarifying in a way that I feel is more even-handed. As you say, however, it's mostly six of one, a half dozen of the other.

Thanks, Martykl,

Interestingly, because I can mute my Gryphon Colosseum amp, I often do so just to hear how much the Sub is working. I will say it surprises me how much it is active.

I don't hear notes per se, but the room seems tons bigger. This is on many, many recordings (live recordings) as well as deep house, electronic, soundtracks, etc.

I can mute my CJ preamp...which shuts off everything...and suddenly the 'atmospherics' disappear and I am back in our living room. But with the CJ UN-muted (but the Gryphon amp still on mute so no X1s)...those atmospherics come back again.

I believe this is part of what I like about good subs.

But your point is well taken...how much does this really alleviate from the X1s? The only thing I know is that DW himself designed the Wilson Thor/XS to be used with the big X-series speakers (cut off below 38-39hz with the Wilson Active crossover)...

guess there is only one way to find out! Thanks for your advice.

You're not the only person to mention the "expanded space" phenomenon. I'm not sure I've ever really experienced it, but it makes some sense if the sub is providing very low level bass throughout the room and that is perceived as ambient special information.

My post was focused more on your chosen x-over point and my guess is that the effect you describe is probably (I'd think) independent of that choice.